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You're listening to the ground transportation podcast with Ken Lucci of driving transactions and James Blaine of PAX training. Learn how you can build a thriving transportation business with real profits, repeat clients, and enterprise value. And now for your hosts, Ken and James.

Ken Lucci: 0:30

Well, welcome back to another exciting episode of the ground transportation operator podcast. Um, my name is Ken Lucci from driving transactions. My faithful compadre, James Blaine from PAX training.

James Blain: 0:43

Hey, everybody.

Ken Lucci: 0:44

Um, and we are really pleased to introduce a gentleman named Adam Warren. Adam say hello.

Adam Warner: 0:50

Hey everyone, happy to be here. Thank you for the conversation today.

Ken Lucci: 0:53

So I have to tell you a little background about, um, Adam represents a company called Indrive, which we came across doing a little bit of financial analysis. And Indrive is a company that operates in 470 countries, roughly. Um, is a, probably the largest passenger transportation company that I've got, I've never heard of. Um, 6, 000 employees, uh, great growth, uh, 4. 5, uh, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but 4. 5 billion in trip. and one of their, they're on the ride share side of the industry and they have an extremely intriguing value proposition. And we are so happy that Adam's going to talk about his background and talk about the company. So Adam, the floor is yours.

Adam Warner: 1:53

Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate the opportunity to kind of talk about in drive and how we're different. I've been in the automobile transportation space my whole life. So I actually went to college for communications. I thought I was going to be doing a lot more podcasting on the other end like you guys. Um, um, was really interested in radio kind of growing up. So I just happened to get a job at CarMax, um, a used car dealer here in the United States. Worked there for 20 years, worked my way up, um, kind of did everything behind the scenes from, um, all the logistics of transportation and how do we get these cars ready for sale? And so, um, that kind of took me to my second spot. So I've only had three jobs in my life. So let me just put that out there. And so that my second job, um, after working there 17 years, Was, uh, Lyft. And so Lyft, um, wanted me to come and build a fleet program. Um, how do we sit there and connect, have our own product, be able to rent and lease these vehicles out to ride share drivers, gig economy workers. Um, so we're able to kind of build that infrastructure. And I, and then I kind of grew up in the ride share space.

Ken Lucci: 3:10

How long were you there?

Adam Warner: 3:11

I was at Lyft for about five years.

Ken Lucci: 3:13

Nice. Nice.

Adam Warner: 3:15

So, you know, in drive came Colin. Um, I was like, I don't know who these people are.

Ken Lucci: 3:21

They recruited you out of Lyft.

Adam Warner: 3:23

was like, yeah, I was like, yeah, like who, like who,

Ken Lucci: 3:26

who, are you?

Adam Warner: 3:26

these individuals? Yeah. Um, so got to learn a lot about them. Um, obviously I think that the, the value proposition is super interesting. So, um, so now I'm here at Indrive. So I've been here well over a year, um, working on my, my second year here and, uh, look forward to many more. Obviously

Ken Lucci: 3:48

So Indrive was founded by, I forget his name. I apologize.

Adam Warner: 3:52

his name is Arson Tomsky.

Ken Lucci: 3:54

Yep.

Adam Warner: 3:55

So, yeah, it's, it's kind of interesting. Um, so this company has been around 11 years, so you, you kind of, you, you kind of set it up a very interesting here at the beginning, if you think about it and what's unique is that we are the second largest rideshare company in the world, and you've never heard about us here in the United

James Blain: 4:17

No.

Ken Lucci: 4:17

never. I've asked, I've asked operators, Hey, did you ever hear of these guys? And, and full disclosure, we did an executive briefing on your company and you guys were really nice enough to correct my draft to make sure that we were completely accurate. But I just, I don't get intrigued by many things anymore. But you're, you're cut. This is incredibly a it's, it's a, it's very altruistic, but it's not an altruistic startup. It's an outro. It's a, it's a, it's 4. 5 billion in trips. And I think it's incredible for us to say you are the second largest, but you also, what is it the number three or number four most downloaded travel app, right?

Adam Warner: 5:00

Number four, number four in the world, worldwide. We have over 250 million downloads of our, of our application out there in the world. Um, so it's, it's super unique. Um, I can go ahead and give you like new updates. We have now just recently completed 5 billion rides worldwide. So we just hit the 5 billion mark.

Ken Lucci: 5:22

Nice.

James Blain: 5:23

Well, and, and Adam, can you kind of back up for a second? Right. Kind of like Ken said, you guys, you guys are huge. You guys are massive, but there's so many people, operators, heck myself included, that had never heard of you guys, right? That it's, it's, well, who is this company?

Ken Lucci: 5:37

And where'd you, start? Where

James Blain: 5:39

exactly. Yeah. Can, can you tell us kind of where you guys came from? Kind of what makes you different? You know, people think of a typical TNC, but I know you're not right. You're completely different.

Adam Warner: 5:49

Completely and utterly different. So let's kind of talk about the history. Um, 11 years ago, it's New Year's Eve. It's in Siberia. It's minus 49 degrees Fahrenheit. All right, so that's I'm setting up the stage

Ken Lucci: 6:03

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. It's New Year's Eve In

Adam Warner: 6:07

years ago

Ken Lucci: 6:07

In Siberia.

Adam Warner: 6:08

Minus 49 degrees Fahrenheit. I don't

Ken Lucci: 6:11

I want to be on my New

James Blain: 6:12

I'm, I'm hoping you weren't personally there for this

Adam Warner: 6:15

no, no, no, no I'm, i'm a good old southern boy here in the United States. So I uh, you know, I don't I don't know about that cold

Ken Lucci: 6:21

So. Okay.

Adam Warner: 6:23

so minus 49 Everybody's out partying and, and all of the taxi services kind of gather it up together. And they were like, Hey, we have a captive audience. It's super cold. They're not going to want to walk home. And so they developed their own surge pricing before surge pricing had a name. And so the local taxi companies, um, Bumped up the price three, 400, 500 percent than what they were expecting. It infuriated the local population. So they were upset. So our founder was upset as well. And he basically started this company as a Facebook group and basically put on the board saying, Hey, I'm going here. Is anybody going in that direction? I'm willing to pay this much money. And the whole company got started just like that. next thing, you know, it took off and like, poof, they started this, they started this business and, uh, built out their application, um, and then continue to grow. And so we're in 46 countries around the world. Over 700 plus cities that we're currently active in. and our founders really started this business in emerging markets. So not developed countries like the United States, Europe, et cetera. So what are these emerging markets where? Basically, wage discrimination happens at a very high level, if you think about it. Um, where kind of the, the workforce and the labor force are kind of not treated as fairly as they, as they are in some countries. And so they came up with a system and kind of rolled it out and developed it from there. And so at the end of the day, here's the, here's what Indrive is. We are. A peer to peer marketplace for ride share. So what does that mean? It means that I don't set the market. I don't set the pricing. It is completely handled between the passenger and the driver. So the driver agrees on that particular fare and then the passenger gets to participate as well. And I'll go into a little bit of details of kind of how it works. But, um, what I can tell you is that it takes some of our competitors. Many, many engineers to, to kind of set these pricing algorithms in the background. And so just by having that not be a component of our business allows for such cleaner, simpler operations on our end, because I'm, I don't have these crazy algorithms that we're having to continuously, um, adjust. And then that allows me to take the lowest commission in the industry. Okay.

Ken Lucci: 9:18

And you also don't have. The self perpetuating job security of all these hundreds of engineers that, that, so, I mean, it is, this is a very important point because if you, I've read their public work, the both companies, public reports, and the huge amount that they spend on software engineers is unbelievable. So,

James Blain: 9:41

it's insane.

Ken Lucci: 9:42

when you take a look at, you are a flatter, much flatter organization.

Adam Warner: 9:49

And that's, that is the competitive advantage that we have. That is the reason why we're able to, to grow as fast as we can continue to grow is because we don't have that kind of in the background and the marketplace is different everywhere, right? So in, in Lima, Peru, it's completely different than Mexico city, which is different than Cairo. I mean, you, you can just go on and on and on. Um, and so you fast forward to last year. Um, you know, that it's, it's unique to build such a huge business without being in the United States. Like it's kind of odd,

Ken Lucci: 10:26

So you went from where to where, to where would you say, what was your transition?

Adam Warner: 10:30

um, as far as in drive, kind of continuing to grow and develop across the country.

Ken Lucci: 10:35

Where did you start? Where did you get critical mass where you guys said, Holy crap, we're really onto something. We need to really, and, and the strategy of moving globally. How did you, how did you guys choose that?

Adam Warner: 10:47

So, uh, you know, like I said, emerging markets, that was kind of the, the first criteria, where can we sit there and kind of help people have a better living. Uh, and make a better wage and get people around safely. Those were kind of the ultimate criterias. Where you started to see critical mass, um, you know, India is a big market.

Ken Lucci: 11:08

Oh, huge.

Adam Warner: 11:08

India's, India's massive. Um, Egypt, for us, took off. So we're in those North African countries, took, started taking off. And then once they got to Latin America, The Mexicos, the Brazils, you know, um, like, like I said, in Peru, I keep highlighting that because it's like, I'm just dumbfounded how big. Lima, Peru is for us. Like it blows my mind. I'm like, I can't believe there's that many people to even do that many rides. So those critical mass points allowed for pretty aggressive development throughout Latin America. And so kind of taking Those learnings, understanding that we're not in developing countries or developed countries, um, they, they came up with a strategy. It's like, great, let's, let's dip our toe in the water. We know that there's two big players in the marketplace. How can we come in, compete, give a different value proposition and, uh, you know, give, give them a run for their money. And so we launched last year in Miami, Florida. So that was our first, um, us market. And so. When, when you think about Miami, it's such a cultural melting pot. And so, so many people from Latin American countries, like all of those countries, um, either are coming through, you know, or currently live there. So we instantly had brand recognition. So I know I, yeah, so it, for, yeah, for me and you too. No idea. Right. But for them, it's like, Oh yeah, I know exactly what that is. And so, um, ended up signing up way more drivers than I could have ever anticipated and it just grew exponentially. So wonderful. First go around. Um, I was able to. Actually be really methodical. Look at what works in the United States. What doesn't like what features work, what don't, um, and start really kind of developing the product along the way. Cause I think that that's

Ken Lucci: 13:13

of that? What doesn't work? Do you think

Adam Warner: 13:16

well, you know, um, and we'll kind of get into the negotiation model, which makes us completely different. It's, it's very simple, even UI type of experiences on the app. Um, everything from how the map looks.

Ken Lucci: 13:31

sure.

Adam Warner: 13:33

um, how the pricing looks like we had, like in our app, um, when you, when we started, if you were doing a ride for 15 and 80 cents, it would be 15 comma. Eight. And so just it's little cultural things that work around the world. So you wouldn't think that that's a big deal, but in order to kind of get that mass appeal, Like you, we want it to feel like it is homegrown here in the United States.

James Blain: 14:00

There's, there's expectations with anything, right? You know, and I always tell people to think of when I go to a website and I'm on my phone, you always look for those three little horizontal bars and that's how you get to the menu. And every once in a while you go to a website where the designer thinks, so I'm going to be, I'm going to be smart. I'm going to be cool. I'm going to do something different. And what happens is immediately go to that website and you're going, how the heck do I open the menu? How do I get to the next page? So that, that makes complete sense. And having to kind of tailor that to the market and the expectations.

Ken Lucci: 14:29

So what would you say you learned in Miami? What, what did you not expect and what were you pleasantly surprised at?

Adam Warner: 14:36

So, you know, it's hard to have grandiose expectations, but what I'm most, I guess I'm not very surprised. I guess it ultimately makes sense. Um, but we were, are, are early adopters. Were commuters, like people who don't necessarily have, uh, you know, reliable transportation, this commuter base knows that they can get to point A and point B safely, you know, very economically, like, et cetera, et cetera. And so, for whatever reason, I think that my preconceived notion was. Especially with Miami, um, I know that a large portion of rides that take place in South Florida happen between 6 p. m. and 6 a. m. Like, this was a known fact. I totally understood, um, you know, the nightlife and how it is down there. So, I really thought that that was going to be some of our bread and butter. You know, people coming out of events, you know, there's surge pricing going on. Let me, let me see what I can do on in drive, get this ride cheaper and kind of go from there. Um, but that's not necessarily the case. Those commuters really adopted to us and make up a large portion of our consumer base down in South Florida. Um, which I'm thankful, like it's, it's great. And it's kind of helping me kind of build the, the initial marketing strategy. Like as we kind of grow forward in some of our expansion plans, because, um, I know that they adapt to it very quickly and then I can continue to tweak and learn and, you know, chip away at market share, uh, bit by bit.

Ken Lucci: 16:18

so is it fair to say that your first, your, your, your first consumer persona is someone that if they didn't use in drive, they were going to use, you know, one of the other two, or they might be taking a public bus. Okay. So, you know, you probably do have people, you know, uh, housekeeping staff, blue collar workers, as you say, early morning, getting to work. that that is phenomenal. So how has, how has the marketplace concept, taken off in Miami compared to wait a minute. You're not telling me how much the prices or or, you know, I'm able to negotiate a little bit. How is that taken off for you guys?

Adam Warner: 17:06

Yeah. So if you kind of think about it from, from this standpoint, so since I do not set the marketplace, right. That there's a heightened level of transparency that we're able to provide everybody. So what do I mean? If you use our competitors. You have no say in who's picking you up. Like it's just going to match make you with somebody you are, you're able to, you'll see there are different offerings. So there are different lines, whether it's a luxury ride, different levels. So you get to see that. Um, if you close out of the app, 10 minutes later, that price could have gone up 20, 30 percent like instantly. And you're like, Oh man, I was about to, like, I was just checking to see what the price is and now it's 15

Ken Lucci: 17:51

See, and I

Adam Warner: 17:52

get to do the

Ken Lucci: 17:53

and I think it's worse than that. I have my sister who does extremely well in real estate, but she'll take Uber, you know, to and from. the same places and she's like, one night it cost me 18 bucks. Another night it cost me 48. How can I plan? I'm like, you can't,

James Blain: 18:08

You can't. And you could almost literally cross the street. And, and leaving from the restaurant you walked across over to the shop and you're going to get a different

Ken Lucci: 18:17

And that is, so maddening in any consumer transaction. The other piece of that puzzle, it maybe you'll get into it is, is the business side of things. I mean, how do you turn in an expense report that said, I went from my house to the airport for 70 bucks. Uh, But, by the way, on the way back, it cost me 375 for the same, for the same trip. Right, that's to me the biggest issue with corporate adoption of of those other two. And I'm glad we're not giving their name, logo, their brands any airtime, by the way.

Adam Warner: 18:57

So, so

James Blain: 18:58

And, and hold on, Adam, can you back up for a second? I think, I think before we dive into that, walk us through what this transaction actually looks like, right? Because in my head, I'm thinking, you know, I pull an app out and I throw a number out there. I mean, who's going to grab it? And I know that's not technically how it works. So how does this process actually work? Okay.

Adam Warner: 19:17

Yeah, absolutely. So let's say that we're in Miami and let's say that we're at the airport and you want to get a ride to South beach. You go onto the app as a passenger and let's say that I'm willing to pay 20 bucks to go from point A to point B. That 20 ride then goes out to every driver in the vicinity. So every driver who is active. And has our app on, we'll see that Adam is willing to go or wants to go from Miami airport to the beach. He's willing to pay 20. So, it's not going to one driver. All drivers in that vicinity see it. So you can see 10, 20, 30 drivers see that order. So now, now it's on the driver's hand. Are they willing to come and do that ride for 20? 20. Or, you know, maybe I have a Chevy Suburban. It's a little bit nicer. You know, I, I do livery on the side. Um, you know, I'm willing to do it for 27. Well, that driver can put that in and it comes back to me. So all the bids come back. So, um, and, and I recently said this in a, in another article, um, but we average you, you'll average four to eight. Bids from drivers, you know, with it within about 30 to 45 seconds.

Ken Lucci: 20:44

That's unbelievable.

James Blain: 20:45

And

Adam Warner: 20:45

you'll, you'll see it. And I'm, and I'm low balling it. Cause I've been in situations where I've gotten like 20 bids. So like, but I'm, but I'm giving you the average ultimately.

James Blain: 20:54

and then do you guys suggest a price, right? The other thing that, that comes out to me as a consumer is, you know, if, if I'm, you know, I I'm going from Miami to the low hotel, right? It's, it's right there. It's real quick. You know, I have no idea what to kind of even think about that. I don't want to throw a number out that's too high and give them a field day, but I also don't know where to start. So, you know, Do you guys give them some kind of direction? Do you make that kind of painless for them?

Adam Warner: 21:22

I mean, we, so, you know, ironically, you go back to what did we learn in Miami and what do we need to tweak? Well, we did not have that feature on to start. So consumers did not know what to do. They, they didn't know how to kind of adjust the marketplace. So, um, we helped them. In the banner it says here's the recommended price for the trip that you are looking to go on You know and it has to do with distance and you know mileage, etc. So but here's the recommended price So let's say for that same ride. It's recommending 22 22 80 is the recommended price for that 20 trip that I was kind of referring to the example Um, I can still put in 20 bucks. So I I can totally still do that from a consumer based standpoint Um But we want to give them sort of like, Hey, in a roundabout way, like the most fair and equitable, um, price is going to be this. Um, because on the other end, a driver does not have to accept my 20, right? They don't have

James Blain: 22:26

might accept it.

Adam Warner: 22:26

Yeah, they might not. Um, and so you'll, you'll get, you'll get feedback very quickly on, uh, on the fact that nobody wants to bid and something will pop up on our screen after a certain time. Um, Hey, you might want to think about raising this bid,

Ken Lucci: 22:44

Is that, algorithmic? That's algorithmic, though. it's an actual person?

Adam Warner: 22:50

It's an it's the consumer. It's the person, uh, who's calling the ride So we we just state hey, you're not getting any bids. You might want to raise this to make

Ken Lucci: 23:00

Now, when I bid,

Adam Warner: 23:03

Of

Ken Lucci: 23:04

if I, are you, are you giving any information on me, like, Ken has completed 5500 rides, people love him, he's got a 4. 9, James is a buck cheaper, but he's only done 500 rides. And he's got a miserable 3. 7.

Adam Warner: 23:21

We like those are super important metrics um, because there is a component of Wanting to communicate with the community to to give You You know, feedback, because I do think it's important because look, my, my mandate is to ensure that drivers are treated fairly and passengers have a safe, reliable, great experience.

Ken Lucci: 23:44

So let's talk about the safety aspect

Adam Warner: 23:45

have to have to do it. It's super important.

Ken Lucci: 23:48

so, you know, the other, you know, the prior companies really, really fought, really fought background checking. They, they, there's, and there's some, some, some could argue some holes in there. Um, first of all, first of all, they've had an abysmal history of fighting. And they've had some real safety issues and, you know, they do their own self service, self serving internal safety reporting rather than hiring real safety companies. Tell us about your process. If Ken wants to become a driver, he's got an absolutely clean record. Every way his driver's license is clean, his background is clean. And then you have James, who's like, uh, 27 speeding tickets. You know, he may have a bad background as far as his criminality is concerned. Tell us about your process.

Adam Warner: 24:40

Well, well, I can tell you, Ken, you're going to be accepted. And James, sorry, it's a no go. you're

Ken Lucci: 24:44

Well, the reality

Adam Warner: 24:45

not going to be able to hang out with us.

Ken Lucci: 24:47

in this example, in this example, I actually switched us. Okay. Because I have the bad background. James has got everything going for him.

Adam Warner: 24:57

absolutely. So look, it's, it's a very extensive process. Um, it does take some time to be approved to be a driver. It is one of the reasons why we start that process when we're looking at our new market months in advance, because it takes a lot of

Ken Lucci: 25:13

Boots on the ground in Miami before you boots on the ground before you launch.

Adam Warner: 25:17

yeah, we, we were recruiting drivers for months before we, before we launched.

Ken Lucci: 25:21

And with, I mean, physically doing physical interviews are all over the

Adam Warner: 25:24

Yeah, yeah, all, all, anything and above, whether it's going to an airport. Uh, you know, cell phone waiting area and talking to the drivers waiting up in the queue

Ken Lucci: 25:35

we do the same thing. Yep.

Adam Warner: 25:37

I mean it's it's super important like where where are the people kind of congregated who are interested in doing these services that's where we need to go and talk to um, we'll do lots of customer development You know, I, I've personally done a lot of different recruiting rides, you know, and especially if I get into a vehicle and I have a really great experience, you better believe I'm, I am recruiting like nobody's business. You better believe

Ken Lucci: 26:02

how has the driver communities that are, you know, frankly, and we, we monitor part of what we do is we have a researcher monitor the Facebook groups of those other two companies. And, you know, I will tell you, it's very difficult to even find someone who likes and believes they're treated fairly. That's the exception. How did the driver pool? of existing TNC, how did they react to you in Miami?

Adam Warner: 26:33

Thankfully, with a little bit of a gratefulness. And let me tell, let me tell you why, um, being transparent and simple is very important, I believe in this industry. Okay. So I am. They get to see exactly where these riders are going. Like there's a level of transparency. It's like, Oh, this person's going from here to here. I know how long that's going to take me. I've been doing this for a long time. I can, I can kind of set what I want to make. Um, and they get to see what the rider is willing to pay.

James Blain: 27:10

You're giving them control. I

Adam Warner: 27:11

I'm giving like,

James Blain: 27:12

the big thing with the other TNCs is you're blind. You don't know if you're going to the airport or it's three cities

Ken Lucci: 27:16

And by, by the way, Adam, do, do I, if, if, if I'm a, an abusive rider,

Adam Warner: 27:24

Of course.

Ken Lucci: 27:24

do the drivers know my background? Like that I drink in the car and I swear and I,

Adam Warner: 27:29

Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, we have to be completely transparent. Like I, you know, I have to keep the whole, like, I care about keeping the entire community safe. So drivers to me in this industry are the most valuable. Commodity and I need to make sure that they're happy. I'm not doing the rides like I'm not out there doing that work so I need to make sure that I'm treating them fair and Consistent but think about it like this Most of our competitors they only see what they're going to get paid So it's like, Oh, I'm going to get paid, you know, 6 and 88 cents for this ride. That's all that they can see. But me as the consumer could have paid 25,

Ken Lucci: 28:15

And I, and I, and I

Adam Warner: 28:16

this is true. This is a very true story. Oh

Ken Lucci: 28:20

And I know a lot of Uber drivers, whoops said the word, a lot of TNC drivers, the passenger will say to them, geez, you know, I paid 30 bucks for this. I hope you get a lot of that. And the, and the, the, the driver will say, I get nine, I get 9 out of that,

James Blain: 28:38

Yeah. If that.

Ken Lucci: 28:40

So, you know, it's interesting to me, and I'm just going to say it, your business model from jump, your business model from inception. is based around fairness to the driver as a number one priority and not the show game on, well, today you're going to get paid this, tomorrow you're going to, I'm going to have teams, I'm going to have teams of people trying to figure out ways to screw you out of 50 cents.

Adam Warner: 29:10

got it. And.

Ken Lucci: 29:12

Yeah.

Adam Warner: 29:13

because because look It's known out there that competitors are taken 50 to 60 percent of what the rider's paying like, okay Like there's there's enough there's enough out there for for everybody to you know, fact check me on that Um, I I take 29. 7 flat 29. 7 Of what the writer pays. That's what I'm taking. Um, that covers our commercial insurance. We have to have commercial insurance. So to our competitors, like we all know you guys are in the, this industry as well. commercial insurance is going up, right? Inflation and inflation in this, in this individual sector is, is, uh, you know, the, the greatest risk opportunity to, to all of us in this industry. Um, Ultimately, that's most of that goes to the to cover those operational fees will make a little bit for for connecting the dots and connecting these two people together. But you as a driver will know that Adam paid 20 bucks for this ride and you're and I'm going to take 29. 7. So they get to they see all of that information. It's completely transparent. Um, So they can also set that marketplace with knowing that I'm going to take 29. 7%. So we do have, we do have savvy, um, drivers out there that understand that. And it's like, Oh, for that kind of ride, I want to make sure that I'm making 20. So yeah, here's what I'm going. I'm going to overbid so that I can make that 20 for that trip. And

James Blain: 30:49

but you're trying, you're trying to be a connector, right? You look at the other TNCs, you look at the other models, you look at the other ride share companies, you know, for them, that driver is the commodity, right? And their whole dream

Ken Lucci: 31:02

well, they're the chat. let's, face it. They're the chattel.

James Blain: 31:05

well, exactly. And the dream of, of most other TNCs is the day that we get self driving cars, we're going to dump all the drivers, right? That's why they're all working towards that. Whereas

Ken Lucci: 31:15

Oh, and invested investing in it.

James Blain: 31:17

Oh, yeah. Millions. Millions and millions of dollars. And the interesting thing with InDrive and what you guys do, Adam, is that you are truly working on transparently connecting those passengers with drivers. You're not so much trying to play the commodity shell game like Ken was talking about.

Ken Lucci: 31:36

well, you, you know, somebody,

Adam Warner: 31:38

interested in that

Ken Lucci: 31:39

no, it's somebody basically said, you know, this is really like, and I hate the analogy, but this is an Airbnb type. I'm going to, I'm going to tell you what I want to charge. So I was with a private equity firm. I do what I call speed dating where I go up and do lunches and I, and I talk about the transportation industry in general and take a lot of shots. Um, a lot of shots at no, you're, you know, your industry is this, that, and the other thing in the TNC is you have yet. And the guy says to me, I don't know what your problem with Uber is. They're just like booking. com. I'm like, you are dead wrong. And I think I might have even used the F word. So you're dead wrong. Because what they do is they manipulate the pricing structure. Whereas booking. com says to the provider, uh, give me whatever inventory you want at whatever price it is, and I'm going to try to move it for you. By the way, if it's too high, I'm going to tell you it's too high, but you know, I know the, the, the, the inception of booking. com, the president of American Airlines said, tell me how much I spend for my reservation department. Why wouldn't I do this? But, but there's a manipulation on the part of those TNCs that you've completely cut out of the discussion. On both the consumer side and the driver side, more importantly.

Adam Warner: 33:00

Yes. And it makes it just simpler. We, I don't, I don't need to, I don't need to play games with anybody. And I do think that there's a simpler way that we can do it. And I do believe that we have a model that allows us the opportunity to provide that to the marketplace.

Ken Lucci: 33:20

So, flash

Adam Warner: 33:20

want, I like, I want our, I want our passengers to fully understand that, Hey, when you're taking this trip, If you use us, the driver is going to get the vast majority of what you're paying. And why is that important? Cause I can tell you, I made the mistake. I got into a ride. I said that I was paying 72 for the ride. The driver was very upset. That experience was not the most pleasant for me. So I've

Ken Lucci: 33:48

with the other, with the other TNCs.

Adam Warner: 33:50

with the others. Yeah. And because the driver,

James Blain: 33:53

no control.

Adam Warner: 33:54

you have no control and,

James Blain: 33:55

that's just how it works.

Adam Warner: 33:56

and it made the driver upset and it wasn't the most smooth ride that I've

Ken Lucci: 34:01

let's, you

Adam Warner: 34:02

That's just, just, it's just the truth.

Ken Lucci: 34:03

I have two questions. I want to wrap up with a, with a, with, with, with one question. And then I want to make a comment. Well, where do you see flash forward 36 months from now? Where do you see the U S market for you guys? What's your goals?

Adam Warner: 34:18

Yeah, look for me, if you would, you know, a lot of people ask me, it's like, okay, you know, LA, Chicago, New York, you know, those are massive markets, you know, and completely, completely agree. Those are all massive, massive markets. Um, I'm looking at, and we just recently launched an Indianapolis, Indiana. Right. There are many more cities like Indianapolis, Indiana, then there are New York, LA and Chicago.

Ken Lucci: 34:49

Yep. Yep.

Adam Warner: 34:50

I'm also launched in Tallahassee, Florida, which if anybody, yep, exactly. College town, uh, fluctuation in population and it's based on schooling. So I just recently launched in both of those locations. Why is that important? So if I can build our user base and kind of understand how to make Transcribed Our product work in those particular areas. It completely opens up my expansion plan because New York, Chicago, LA, they're always going to be there. Don't get me wrong. Like I, I will accomplish that target and get to those places. Don't worry. But you know, um, can I take this learning? Can I get. Can, can I become the, you know, a third, a third viable option in the marketplace that, that is currently dominated by two people? You know, that's, that's my hopes and dreams. So. I do have a fairly aggressive 2025 plan. Um, I'm in the budgeting process now to kind of understand what that's going to be. Um, so coming soon, you'll, you'll see the press release when we, uh, start rocking and rolling and, and, uh, really get this thing moving in 2025.

James Blain: 36:04

Well, and let me ask you something real quick, and I want to make sure we get this in because, you know, a big chunk of our listeners are transportation company owners, right? Uh, they've got, you know, diverse fleets that they're using. You've got limos, you've got bus, you've got everything in there, you know, is there an intersection or is there an interface where you guys kind of work with them or through them or anything there, or is this something where you Are purely a TNC recruiting drivers operating in that form.

Adam Warner: 36:34

So I will. Answer the question somewhat differently only because here's something else that we, you don't know about in drive. We operate in so many spaces throughout the gig economy. So think about the TNC model. We have courier service, freight, handyman services, uh, all with the same type of thought process, right? So if your door knob breaks, You put out there, Hey, I'm looking for a handyman. This is what I'm willing to pay. So the, the, the, the same, the same, you're, you're connecting people. So the same rules apply. So. I say that to answer your question. We are most definitely looking about how we can make those partnerships so that we can be a connector to people who use those services on a consistent basis. So those conversations are happening. I think I had one two weeks ago, um, with a, with a major. Taxi provider. Um, and so we're continuing to look at how we can connect with these individuals who kind of own these livery companies and, and how we can best support them. So more to come. It's important. It's important to me just, just, just to put it honestly.

James Blain: 37:49

Are you guys tiered as well then? That's kind of something that we haven't touched on, you know, you, you look at any of the other TNCs, I can choose whether I want, you know, the fabulous 95 Honda Civic, or I can upgrade, you know, to the, the black or the premium. That's the equivalent of livery. Do you guys tier in that same type of way? Or is that something where, you know, they're, you're, you're letting them say what they have available and there isn't necessarily defined tier.

Adam Warner: 38:13

So, so think about it like this. So if you want just kind of a standard, a standard tier, here's the good thing about that. It goes out to every, every driver. Across all classes, get to see the, see the order. We do have Excel premium. And so if you select that premium, then that's only going to go to those drivers, um, as well. So only those drivers will see it. And there is a higher recommended price for that particular service. So you're, you have to kind of expect that you're going to pay a little bit more. So that's kind of how it works. That that's kind of how to think about it. But, um, I know that it's important if I'm at a, some kind of event and I have six people, you know, you, you need to make sure that you can, that you can get a ride big enough. And so you have that option within our app to make that happen.

Ken Lucci: 39:03

You know, and, and Adam, my company does a lot of research. We have portals, we have Dow Jones, Bloomberg, we have name it. We have it. And that's how I found you guys. And I have to tell you, I've come across, you know, lots of Uber wannabes. I've had lots of people call us and say, listen, help us raise capital and we'll give you stock. I'm like, that's not what we do. So I, we, neither one, we talked about this. Neither one of us wanted to bring on someone that was going to be that kind of a wannabe. What, What, what I like about this, and this is game changing, is the marketplace concept. And the fact that you actually, your actually value proposition is built on equity. And what bothers me on, when the book Uber Poor comes out, from my publisher, swear to God, I'm in the middle of it. I'll get it done for you. When that book comes out, a piece of that book is going to be talking about the hypocrisy, hypocrisy of, of the drive, of the, of the company, but also of the passenger. So, if you're one of those people at a diversity, equity, and inclusion protest, and then you want to get a drive, ride home 30 miles, and you're hitting a, a, a TNC, and you're paying 9 for it, shame on you. for listening. Because you're, you're talking about, you know, your indignation about corporate fat cats, but you know in your heart that you just screwed the person that's taking you home. And that, that's another piece of the, of the, what I think has been the dark side of the gig economy. The dark side of the gig economy is the hypocrisy of the person that knows that they're not even covering this poor guy's costs. So, That would not come out if you did not have if the marketplace concept that you're doing, uh, wasn't introduced in this country. The, the other piece that I like about this is I bet you this catches on like wildfire in college towns.

James Blain: 41:11

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And Ken, I think you nailed it on the head, right? I mean that if you're doing a 30 mile trip for 9, think of how much is actually getting to that driver. And not only that, think of the fact that that driver is just going to have it pop up on a screen. There's no option. There's nothing there. I mean, this is, this is going to be a real disruptor

Ken Lucci: 41:31

and, and, and, you know, James, we're going to say it, you and I might take a little flack for having in drive, but on, but I will tell you, I want the information out there. And I want, I want these guys to succeed because I firmly believe that the dark side of the gig economy is, is hurting people. It's, it's hurting people that are, that do not have the money to waste. They do not realize the mechanics that take the, the, the toll it takes on their vehicle and they're the least. Uh, able to absorb a repair and maintenance on that piece of equipment and they think, I just got a$50 ride, therefore I made$50. So I'm, we're gonna have you on again when you make more headway in the US where, uh, we want to, we want to thank you for coming on and, and, um, we hope we weren't hard on you and we hope this was enjoyable.

James Blain: 42:25

Absolutely. We appreciate having you on Adam.

Adam Warner: 42:28

I, I'm very appreciative of the conversation and, and like, look, I'm completely open. We need to have open dialogue. With regards to what's actually happening out there. And so we shouldn't be afraid of it.

Ken Lucci: 42:42

No, you're part of the ecosystem. You are part of the transportation ecosystem.

Adam Warner: 42:46

I have a responsibility to ensure that I am making it as best for everybody as I possibly can. So that's definitely important to me. And so these conversations help, uh,

Ken Lucci: 42:58

Absolutely. Well, let's keep in touch and, and, and as we discussed in the, in the beginning, we'd love to, to, uh, keep in touch on and offline. And if you need anything from us, let us, let us know.

Adam Warner: 43:11

Absolutely. Thank you so very much, gentlemen.

Ken Lucci: 43:14

Take care.

James Blain: 43:15

again, Adam. Take it easy.

43:17

Thank you for listening to the ground transportation podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe to the show on apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information about PAX training and to contact James, go to PAX training.com. And for more information about driving transactions and to contact Ken, Go to driving transactions.com. We'll see you next time on the ground transportation podcast.