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You're listening to the ground transportation podcast with Ken Lucci of driving transactions and James Blaine of PAX training. Learn how you can build a thriving transportation business with real profits, repeat clients, and enterprise value. And now for your hosts, Ken and James.

James Blain: 0:30

Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Ground Transportation Podcast. I am your host James Blain with my co host Ken Lucci.

Ken Lucci: 0:39

Hello, guys.

James Blain: 0:40

Super excited today we have Mike Rose from My Limousine Service. Mike, I'm super excited to have you on today. I know that you've got a rich background in the industry. You've probably got more to share than we could ever fit into a single episode. So I'm really excited to have you on and I want to try and get as much as we can in. Uh, if you wouldn't mind, do you mind starting with kind of telling us a bit how you got into the industry, your background, kind of how you grew up in it?

Mike Rose: 1:05

Sure. How much time do we got? Well, thank you

Ken Lucci: 1:08

as you want.

Mike Rose: 1:09

thank you for having me here today, gentlemen. Honored to be on the program with, uh, two of my close industry friends and, uh, very, you know, respected members

Ken Lucci: 1:17

oh,

Mike Rose: 1:17

our vendor community. So, thank

Ken Lucci: 1:19

on. You're, you're our favorite, Rose. You, you know that.

Mike Rose: 1:23

So, uh, you know, as, as you mentioned, I kind of grew up in the industry. So it started back in the, you know, mid eighties when I was in high school. Um, my brother owned a car rental and limousine company in North Jersey. And at that point it was probably about 20 cars in the limousine fleet. And, you know, 50 60 rental cars. So I would work there in the summers, washing cars, doing basic maintenance and whatnot and, you know, continued through college. Um, and then transitioned into a full time role. Um, whether I was doing dispatching, managing the rent a car fleet, eventually moving up to general manager, overseeing the day to day operations and, uh, did that until around 1996. And at that point, uh, 1996, we were probably one of the largest fleets in New Jersey. Uh, the limousine fleet, I think we had about 150 vehicles. Um, It was interesting, you know, because the times have changed a little bit, I'm sure we'll talk about it, but the 150 vehicles was primarily the sedans. We didn't have any larger buses. We had a few vans. Uh, but we had like 27, 28 stretch limousines, you know, the old stretch limousines, as the, you know, which have now become extinct in our industry.

Ken Lucci: 2:38

Yeah.

Mike Rose: 2:40

And, uh, you know, after that I decided to, uh, take a little change in career and I went into, uh, the public sector where I, uh, managed a 9 1 1 center. So I was working for, uh, several, a couple different police departments, uh, eventually ended in the, uh, Wyckoff Police Department. Police Department in New Jersey as the Township Communications Manager overseeing the dispatch center, the 911 center, all the communications equipment, computer systems for the town. Um, and that was a regional dispatch center overseeing all the, you know, the incoming calls and emergency traffic. So I did that until, uh, about 2005 when I was, uh, Called from up above to come back into the industry by one of Ken's favorites my brother Tim Rose who then was Who then was?

James Blain: 3:27

business.

Ken Lucci: 3:27

I imagine it was a calm phone call, and it was, Mike, if you just want to stop by and consider it. Yeah.

Mike Rose: 3:40

around January 2005 or whatnot. I got back into the business Tim had asked me to Come work with him at flight time limousine. So at that point um Tim had, uh, taken over the interest, you know, at flight time, and that was probably about a, you know, 60 or 70 car fleet at that point, based in North Jersey. So I, I went in, um, he had a, you know, great legacy staff that had been there for a long time and a management team. So I learned the business, learned their business, uh, learned their staff, learned the operations. Um, and then over the course of my tenure there, we, we grew that business to eventually having, uh, you know, five different offices, uh, throughout the country. So I opened up the office in, uh, Stanford, Connecticut. That was an acquisition. Uh, that we did an acquisition in Philadelphia, opened up an office in Princeton, New Jersey, uh, San Fran and, uh, L. A., which were both acquisitions. And a lot of those acquisitions and or, uh, remote office locations were driven by volume in those markets. So we had existing client bases, you know, that were traveling heavily in those markets and, uh, you know, as you get bigger and as you have your demand increases, you know, you find ways to say, Hey, how can we do this better? Um, so we had some great operators in those markets. They were looking to maybe get out of the industry and we were able to do strategic acquisitions that really helped grow that business. So we took that business, you know, over the years, uh, to, you know, substantial growth. And, uh, and finally, you know, ended up, uh, Tim ended up selling that business in, uh, I think it was December of 2017, where I was eventually the, uh, chief operating officer. After that, uh, you know, the acquisition by Addison Lee in December of 2017, we worked with the Addison Lee team to kind of blend the businesses and integrate them, whether it was, uh, you know, the types of vehicles, the off service offerings, uh, trying to compare what they did over in the UK to the U. S. market. Uh, worked with our clients in the, the U. S. to kind of expand our service offering here as well as offer that service that, you know, Addison Lee was so well known for over in London. Um, so I, you know, I've worked through the transition, uh, through the, you know, the, the, uh, acquisition. And I was at a flight time, uh, Addison Lee up until, uh, like early 2019, uh, when I decided to, uh, transition away from the Addison Lee model. And I went to, uh, did a short stint at Empire CLS and, uh, went to work with, uh, my good friend, David Selinger. Who, uh, obviously runs, uh, an amazing business and, uh, had a great time at Empire CLS until the pandemic came. And, uh, obviously the pandemic had its, uh, effect on every business and, you know, our, our industry was basically crippled down probably 95%. So, um, While, you know, I was trying to reinvent myself during the, the pandemic, I, uh, was lucky enough to be given an opportunity here at my limousine in North Jersey. So, that's where I am today, thankfully. So, my limo was a, uh, 120 car fleet. Prior to the pandemic, uh, everything from sedans up to motor coaches. And, uh, you know, very nice business located in Morris County, New Jersey. Uh, fantastic following retail business, very diverse book of business. And that was something that I really liked about it. Um, You know, it wasn't heavily, uh, rooted in any one business vertical, whether it was pharma or banking. Um, very well diverse book of business. And, uh, in addition to, you know, a couple other, um, ancillary businesses, we have a car rental business, which has about 200 rented cars, and a, uh, tire and auto repair center. So, a little bit different, uh, you know, Been, uh, Empire CLS in flight time, but kind of, uh, in line with where I was when I started in the industry in the car rental business, so

James Blain: 7:58

Back to your

Mike Rose: 7:59

kind of come full circle back to my roots, so. And, uh, you know, through the, uh, pandemic, um, basically, you know, when I came to my limo, I found out they had a fantastic team that was here, a legacy, you know, team that had been here for, you know, 20 years, 25 years, 15 years. So. very fortunate to come to an operation where they had a great team in place. And we were able to expand upon that, bring in some of my folks that had worked with me at flight time over the years, who obviously were fantastic team members. And we worked to kind of retool the business. So, you know, whether it was switching to the Santa Cruz hosted platform, switching email providers, phone system. So we took that time during the pandemic where volume was down to Look at our whole operation here and retool it. I wanted to have a very stable platform to be able to grow from. So now I can focus on the growth of the business, expanding our client base, expanding our service offerings, um, and really, you know, take it to the next level.

James Blain: 9:07

Well, and, and I want to ask you something, Mike, because I've been lucky enough to meet your team, come see your operation, work with, with your chauffeurs. And I will tell you, I've seen a lot of teams and you probably have one of the most solid teams that I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with, right? The environment that you guys have managed to create, the way that you run your operation, the values that you put forth, the It's, it's really bar none. I can, I can count on one hand, right? There's really only two or three other operations that come to mind that are in that same caliber and that same category. So let me ask you, how, how do you do that? How do you create that type of environment when you were retooling, coming back at a COVID? You know, you mentioned things have changed, right? The industry that kind of the whole market change coming out of it. How did you do that? Or how do you pull that off?

Mike Rose: 9:56

Well, I think the key is number one, you know, you talked about our team and thank you for that compliment. Um, as I said, when I came here, you know, most of this team was here. Um, and you know, I didn't come in like a bull in a china shop trying to take over. And, um, You know, I took time to learn the team members, took time to learn the business, needed to understand their strengths and weaknesses. I'm also a volunteer firefighter. I've been chief of two different volunteer fire departments, and I always say, I relate it to the fire department business. I say, you know, there's something for everybody to do on the fire ground. Not everybody's going to be the roof guy, not everybody's going to be the interior guy putting out the fires, not everybody's going to be the, the you know, the driver. So you have to find out what your team members strengths and weaknesses are, and really, Capitalize on on them. And I think that's that's what I try and do is a as a leader. Um, I think it's, you know, culture is so important. You know, people talk about that word culture, but you have to live it. Um, and I think, you know, people want to have a nice place to come to work. So I think your office has to be, you know, a nice environment. Um, I like to say it's my show, my showcase, so my showpiece. I want to bring my clients here. I want to show our clients what our back office looks like. Okay? So when you're calling and booking, you know, a ground transportation experience, You know the folks behind the scenes. You can see the type of office that we keep. You can see the type of fleet we keep. You can see the type of training program we have for our chauffeurs. So it all comes into that, you know, that whole idea of delivering an experience. So the culture in your office, the, you know, the actual, uh, you know, appearance of your office. And obviously the job satisfaction of your employees is key to deliver all of that.

Ken Lucci: 11:46

And, and you have, you really have invested in what I would consider Class A office space. Um, it's a beautiful, you know, industrial park area, but gorgeous office space. And I would imagine when people come in to apply for any job from a chauffeur perspective, CDL, or even office staff, it's very impressive. You know, in, in a lot of cases, a chauffeur will step into a garage, right? Or right. So, you know, you, you really are a corporate, uh, a fortune 500 caliber. operation from, you know, the way it looks, the cleanliness, um, how the people are greeted coming through the door. And I do think that makes a huge difference as far as culture. Um, it's really difficult to equate culture and affect culture when the environment is dirty, right? And the environment is loud. Um, my, the first thing I noticed is how quiet it was when I went to visit.

Mike Rose: 12:46

Absolutely. And, you know, one of the things I think I was fortunate, uh, when I was at flight time, we did a lot of business in New York. A lot of our clientele or book of business was the banks in New York. And they did, you know, both black car and luxury transportation. And we had both sides of that. So I spent a lot of time, you know, dealing with other black car companies and visiting other black car firms. And the one common theme was that, you know, In many cases, I wouldn't be too quick to bring, you know, the CEO of, you know, ABC Bank to my office in Brooklyn to show him this office and, and kinda, you know, uh, showcase that as as my, facility. Um, so when I invite a client to our office, I want to be proud of, of that office. I want to be, have my employees be proud of that office. So it, uh, it goes a long way and it's, again, it's brings in the culture, it brings in the, the job satisfaction, the employees, um, and they enjoy coming here.

Ken Lucci: 13:51

And the other piece of that puzzle is, you know, it's a lot easier to sell value instead of low price. It's a lot easier to sell value when you're, when you're inviting people to see a true real 24 hour operation and to see the level that you've gone to the backside of delivering all the service. I mean, um, your dispatch is extremely impressive. Um, again, to me, it looked more like air traffic control. And the whole environment is exceptionally clean. And you go outside and you see all of the vehicles lined up by size and very, very impressive. Um, so I do think that we don't put enough emphasize on that as far as corporations are concerned. Well, I'm 20, you're, you're 10 or 20 higher. Well, let me show you the difference. I mean, we have an actual infrastructure that tracks everything, tracks your flights. We're 24 by seven. Not to mention all of the insurances that you, that you have that are above, uh, competitors in a lot of cases, but yeah, it's, it's one of the more impressive operations I've, I've stepped into.

Mike Rose: 15:01

You know, when it comes to our dispatch, you mentioned air traffic control, you know, we moved to the new facility in 2022 and, you know, I sat down with my dispatch team and I said, you know, what do you want to see in front of you? How many monitors do you need? So each position has four monitors so they can move around, you know, different apps that they're using different programs. This has become such a technical and app based. Industry, you know, with the GPS telematics, the cameras, the text alerting to clients, following all of the airplane, you know, tracking system. So at any one given time, my dispatchers may have 20 windows open on their, on their, you know, screens. Most people can't fathom that, you know, that they get, you know, confused with one or two windows open at the same time. Our staff is always opening multiple windows and using multiple apps and they're able to move those around on multiple windows, which is great for them.

James Blain: 15:58

it sounds like the background that you've got might have played into that as well,

Ken Lucci: 16:02

Yeah, that's what I was gonna, I was gonna ask the question. What did you take from your experience running a 911 center? back into this industry.

Mike Rose: 16:12

Yeah. So again, great question. The, in the 911 center, so I worked at the, the state police in, uh, Totoa, which was a regional dispatch facility, and we used to answer about 300,000 911 calls a month. So we had a room with like 15 different dispatch positions in it, multiple screens, you know, multiple maps, TVs all around. So that's kind of how the rooms were geared. Um, Translating that to this industry, it's, yeah, we're not doing, you know, emergency scenarios, but it's, very similar tracking the resources, knowing where your resources are allocating them properly, being able to communicate with your clients, and that's really drove the design behind our dispatch positions.

Ken Lucci: 16:56

And the accuracy of taking the information is key. You cannot be in an environment of absolute Chaos. right? You can't. And, and, and when you look at the level of detail it takes, not only to take an order, but also to logistically manage it, all steps, track it in, et cetera, you need a quiet environment. So. You know, 911 center, everyone I've ever walked into, the big ones are all very, very quiet from an accuracy perspective. I think that helps, helps with the information.

Mike Rose: 17:34

The days of, uh, Louie in taxi cab, you know, being in the middle of the garage in a cage, you know, screaming across the garage to, to Joey to go get in the cab, those days are over, unfortunately. And, uh, you know, clients, you know, you're talking to a Fortune 500 client or a Pharma client on the phone, making, you know, 25 different reservations around the world. That's what's changed. You know, it used to be very different back in the 80s and 90s. But, uh, You know, clients were making a point to point reservation, New Jersey to New Jersey, you. know, now they're making reservations in Albuquerque, New Mexico, they're making reservations in London, Italy, Rome, all of these different locations, so it requires a lot more attention to detail and a lot more attention in the room, so having those noisy environments definitely does not work anymore in our industry.

James Blain: 18:23

Well, yeah,

Mike Rose: 18:27

Yeah. Absolutely. And again, each situation is different. I was fortunate enough to be able to, you know, move to a new facility. When we moved to a new facility, all new furniture, all new PCs, we started from scratch. Everything that was in our old facility basically went in a dumpster and we started from scratch. And that was really, you know, the key here was building the church and, you know, working from there.

James Blain: 18:54

and you, and you've teed us, yeah. And you've

Mike Rose: 18:58

I've been busy.

James Blain: 18:59

up for, for something important here, because, you know, it's not just the technology has changed, you know, if I said, you'd tell me about what it was like growing up versus now, I think you'd probably be the first to say, transportation. It's not just black car anymore. It's not just limo anymore. You know, what, what do you, how do you feel that's changed? How do you feel that's going to keep changing? And what's that look like?

Mike Rose: 19:23

So obviously, you know, the main point is, you know, we call ourselves limousine. Uh, you know, the term limousine is synonymous with the, you know, eight passenger stretch limousine or the stretch or the stretch limousine that's doing a funeral. Um, those are a thing of the past. We're one of the rare companies. I think that still has stretch limousines. We have three in our fleet. You know, we have a fleet of 120 vehicles and three. of them are stretched limousines that they remain parked most of the time. Um, but whether it's corporate America or whether it's the retail clients, Limousines are not comfortable anymore, and they, they choose either, you know, an SUV is the option for a group of five to six, or they'll go with a sprinter or a transit van, where they can, you know, sit, collaborate, and have a little bit more comfort. Um, you know, back in the 70s and 80s, people used to go to Atlantic City, they'd take a limo, they'd drink on the way down. Different scenario that has changed. Um, so that the industry has changed. That's one of the reasons, you know, we've talked about it recently on the president of the limousine association here in New Jersey. Um, and you know, we just did a rebranding for that purpose. And we wanted to take that word limousine out of the mix to try and encompass who we are today. So everybody that's from a sedan, of course, You know, up to a motor coach, because that's what our industry has become. So we've we've rebranded it as the Chauffeur Transportation Association of New Jersey. Hoping to pull in, you know, not only necessarily folks that, from a limousine perspective, but maybe we'll get some, you know, motor coach, uh, you know, interest. Maybe we'll get some interest from, you know, other sectors. Uh, anybody that, you know, falls within that chauffeured transportation realm.

Ken Lucci: 21:11

when did you become the president of Lange

Mike Rose: 21:14

In January.

Ken Lucci: 21:15

in January? Um, talk a little bit about how you've seen that association evolve over the time you've been involved with it.

Mike Rose: 21:27

Yes. So, um, again, very fortunate to be serving as president. You know, I consider it one of the most prestigious associations in the country other than the NLA. I just were very fortunate being here in the tri state area because there are so many operators in this area. Um, but, you know, again, I, I think it's grown because our industry has evolved from the, the limousine world into the sedan, motor coach, um, world that it, it's become not only a group for advocacy on regulatory issues, insurance issues, we try and deliver, you know, education, content, and value for our members, affinity programs, et cetera. But I would say that, you know, uh, the. uh. Previous administrations in this association were instrumental in shaping the limousine industry today in New Jersey. Um, you know, no sales tax on vehicle purchases, uh, you know, the New Jersey limousine law, um, just they, whether it was, uh, you know, Barbara Shuriko, you know, Pete Corelli, Jason Chernow, my brother Tim, Jeff Shanker, so many people that have come, you know, prior to me, who were instrumental in getting, you know, legislation passed at the state level. bipartisan, you know, bills to protect our industry and help our members today. A lot of people getting into the industry don't realize today that, you know, they're not paying sales tax on new vehicle purchases, and not paying sales tax on vehicle repairs and parts due to a law that our association helped draft and get passed in the 80s and 90s. So

Ken Lucci: 23:11

Mike. I said this last week when Brett Barinholtz was on and he talked kind of about NELO, which is New England Limousine Association. You know, I'd put you guys head to head as the best in the industry. And then, you know, obviously he spoke about being president of the NLA. I will tell you from where I sit in the industry, the most backwards companies that I go, that I work with are the ones that have no, you know, Association involvement on the state level or on the national level. And not only that, they speak extremely negatively about the associations, et cetera. And they always, always without exception are the ones most backwards on technology processes and just general information on the industry. And I will say, you know, did you, did you know about this, you know, uh, This surge pricing this come. Well, what are you talking about? I mean, do you? Do you know what's even happening in your state? Do you know that at Logan Airport, you guys are going to be losing? You know, you're fighting to keep the curve. Well, that that kind of thing. I just don't know how you can be in an industry and not participate in the associations. I mean, put your competitive hats away because a rising tide lifts all boats. But when I go to Lange, It's a lot of camaraderie. It's a lot of people having a great time, then talking about serious subjects. Um, you, I've never seen several hundred guys in a, ladies and gentlemen, in a room of an association, you know, doing great content. Then you have charity auctions. So you've got it, you guys have got it really organized extremely well.

Mike Rose: 25:01

I think, you know, times have changed back in the 80s and 90s. You know, you wouldn't talk to your competitor. You were arch enemies. You know, I can go out to lunch with Jason Chernow, Joe Gallino, Jeff Nykos, or Jeff Cartagena from Leros, and we can talk about the industry, we can talk about trends that we see, and it's friendly competition. There's enough business for everybody to go around, and we all develop our own little niche market, you know, in this space. Um, but from an association perspective, and I, you know, one of the things I've tried to do since I've taken over is no operator left behind and really try and make our association appeal to the one car operators. But the key to the smaller operators for them is, you know, what are you doing for them? Okay, and that's really been our focus recently is, you know, how do we provide value to those one car operators? Right? So we just were rolling out this week. A little something. It's called Ask C T A N J. And it's basically a, you know, an email program where you can email us any question you have and we'll refer it to one of our industry experts to help you. In your business, kind of like free consulting service for any of our, our, our members, whether it's how do I, you know, purchase new vehicles, how do I register my vehicles, how do I, who do I contact for insurance, whatever your issue is, financial, you know, questions, and obviously we'll take that question and we'll get it to the right person and get them an answer. Um, the other thing is, you get out of an association what you put into it. Um, To your point, Ken, you have to be involved and, you know, truly, um, you know, how do you get those folks involved? My, my focus is really making sure that we don't lose members and growing that and tackling the issues that we see today. So today's issue, you know, Uber continues to be an issue for our industry, Uber and Lyft, the ride share services. Just recently, last week, you saw there was a lawsuit, New Jersey folks were seriously injured in an accident. They found out because they accepted the terms and conditions of the Uber app in 2015 when they were ordering Uber Eats, that compels, that compels arbitration and they can no longer do that. Um, you know, we also have a big problem in this industry, not only in our market, but nationwide with unlicensed operators who are operating out of their house. So, now with the advent of social media, These folks have all gotten a free advertising platform. So, Joe, who lives next door to Ken, who has a Honda Civic minivan, or Honda CRV minivan, is doing airport runs. No insurance, no background screening, nothing. And, you know, fortunate for him. He has state farm for his insurance with minimum state standard insurance. So if God forbid he gets in an accident with a passenger and providing that service for a fee, that passenger is going to be out of luck. So those are two important issues. I think right now that we're focusing on with our lobbying efforts, um, for the smaller operators. That's really key for the smaller operators and for all of us. You know, they're going to start eroding our business. Mm

Ken Lucci: 28:22

it's one of the biggest reasons why we're facing an insurance crisis is because of the underinsured. Right. And, and I firmly believe that the churn in and out of this industry, as well as the churn of drivers in and out of TNCs is one of the reasons why there was the accidents are up 21%. And the personal injury claims are up 41%. And Mike, you and I have talked about nuclear verdicts, right? So, I If you're going to fight it alone as a one car operator, you're not going to get anywhere. But if you, if you, if you join an association and you know, maybe lower your guard just a tiny little bit because everybody in that room is in the same boat. We all rise and fall together. And um, I, I, I think that the insurance crisis is, is existential. I think it's going to be around for a little while.

Mike Rose: 29:26

Oh, absolutely. And at the upcoming CDLNL, NLA show, that's going to be one of the, you know, the key topics for the association summit. And I've been involved in a subcommittee for the NLA talking about, you know, how do we get some real change for insurance, um, whether it's tort reform or even providing our membership. Some best practices material, uh, because everybody does something a little different. So, you know, we work to develop a best practices guide for operators. You know, talk, talk about the, you know, hiring and vetting standards, talking about the training standards, having a, a real training program, you know, whether it's the, uh, National Safety Council PACS training program, which we use here and we love, by the way, uh, or, or any one, you know, Smith System, and any one of those. But any one of those, you know, training programs, that's really going to get you to the next level. Because, unfortunately, it's not only about what you do in your company today that impacts your insurance rates, and whether or not you're renewable or not renewable, there's external factors. You talked about the nuclear verdict. You know, insurance carriers look at, you know, what's going on in the market around you. Philadelphia Insurance, for example, has pulled out of several markets. They're, they're losing money because of the, these verdicts, personal injury claims. Um, so it, it's a big problem for our industry and I know the NLA is, you know, working hard on it. Um, Brett has really taken that, you know, issue and it's, you know, tried to push to put together a subcommittee to look at it. And I think, uh, you know, it's going to take more than the local associations, it's going to take more than the NLA. And I've said this on the calls, I think we really need to team up, we need to get our lobbyists to team up with all the other fleet associations in the country. UMA, ABA, the Trucking Association, the Car Rental Association, every association that represents fleets, they're all in the same boat.

Ken Lucci: 31:25

They're they. Absolutely.

Mike Rose: 31:27

public auto insurance problem.

Ken Lucci: 31:29

Absolutely.

Mike Rose: 31:31

And it's a crisis. It's truly a crisis. And I think I've said it to you, Ken, it's something that keeps me awake at night, insurance. And I'm sure it keeps a lot of operators awake at

Ken Lucci: 31:40

it's the number one reason people are calling us to get their businesses valued and potentially put them up for sale. It we've seen the number, and I've tried to figure out why. Um, we've seen the number of requests for valuations and, and seller consultations go up three times compared to last year. Um, even, even before, you know, even bigger than the pandemic when people were facing, you know, get being closing their doors. And the number one reason now is the fleet insurance issue. Um, we're seeing 40 percent increases, 60 percent increases, and it's difficult to get people to understand that. Insurance is an ecosystem. It is not your loss runs, and it is not the fault of your specific agent. Now, you know, we all know that some agents work a lot harder for people than others, but we are all facing an ecosystem issue in the insurance, in the insurance, world. Reinsurance has gone through the roof. Cash reserves that that insurance companies have to keep has gone way through the roof. Way through the roof. And you know, this whole, this hurricane recently, they're talking about four to 6 billion to rebuild. Uh, I don't know how many vehicles, uh, are totaled, uh, you know, from North Carolina down to Florida. So it is an existential threat of the industry. And I don't know how you tackle it on your own. If you're not part of the associations, both on a state and national level.

James Blain: 33:13

But there's a mindset here as well. You know, when I first got in the industry, one of the things that we found right away when we started doing packs is that we had lots of operators that had this mindset of, well, I've trained them. He's been driving since he was 16. I don't have to teach him

Ken Lucci: 33:28

Yeah, check, check the box off. Check the box off. Yeah.

James Blain: 33:32

so one of the things that i've seen the associations have really pushed for And this kind of goes to what mike's been talking about Is the associations are the ones that are really helping push the education that are really helping push that understanding of yes But you have to constantly be focused on Honing what you do. One of my favorite sayings is nobody is ever going to win the Super Bowl, have the coach come out and say, we won. We're never practicing again. We know everything we ever needed to know. Mike drop, we'll do it next year. But there are so many companies that kind of have that mentality. And one of the things to your point earlier, Mike, is that you have a lot of independent operators who are. That are coming in with no knowledge, no background, because Uber has lowered the bar so much. If I have a black SUV, I can go, I can start driving Uber black. I don't have to buy a suit. I don't have to go through any training. I don't have to do anything special. I can buy that vehicle, and I'm in the industry. And if I'm successful, I can go get a buddy. He can, we can get another vehicle. And all of a sudden there's a company there. And so I, I don't think that you can overstate how important it is to be involved in these associations because not only are we learning the best practices that are going to help protect against that. We have to, as an industry, be able to show the insurance carriers that, as an industry, we're putting the time into training. We're taking the time to make sure that we're preventing accidents. We are a safe bet.

Ken Lucci: 35:04

We're lowering risk. We're lowering risk.

James Blain: 35:06

absolutely, and it's your local and state associations that are pushing that. And I think one of the big things about that rename from, you know, Lange over to CTA& J is understanding that change in the industry.

Mike Rose: 35:22

you know, whether it's the industry evolving, you know, or the vehicles in our industry evolving. The association has to evolve as well, um, and I know the NLA has talked about it, it's just obviously it's a much bigger undertaking for them to do, but you know, you're going to see some exciting things coming out in our association next year, more content, more roundtable conversations, some of the key topics, you know, the struggles that our members face, we're going to focus on them next year and try and deliver some, you know, some interesting content for the members, but you know, when you talk about, you know, um, yeah. Getting into the industry, James, you mentioned getting into the industry with your suburban and whatnot. I always say, you know, there's a difference between being a driver and a chauffeur. A driver delivers pizzas, and a chauffeur delivers passengers, and that's what a lot of people don't get. And that's why, you know, the training programs are the key. Um, and operators who come to these associations and take part in these associations and listen to the webinars and, and, you know, do all of these extra steps to grow their business, they'll be successful. Because it's all about the client experience at the end of the day. That's how you differentiate yourself.

Ken Lucci: 36:32

And, uh, we've gone from an industry that has to check off the box. Yes, I have a safety program to now proving I want to see your safety manual. I want to see everybody who's signed off on it. The same with telematics. Um, people that have the serotype systems. It's not just yes, I have it. It is managing your business from it. You know, I remember I stepped into your dispatch department and I see that they're looking at the reports in Sam Sarah and I see what they're looking at and it's managing your business. So, So, you can with, with, with great evidence and clarity, say to your insurance company, We are lowering risk. We are mitigating risk. We are doing everything we possibly can. Um, my biggest worry is, you know, is the 50 percent at the bottom that are one or two car operators. If they are not going to invest in the safety system, they should join the association and I guarantee you somebody will help you do it. So

Mike Rose: 37:39

Well, I think, uh,

Ken Lucci: 37:40

have to focus,

Mike Rose: 37:41

I think as associations, we need to do a better job at, uh, Offering materials to those folks. And that's why during, you know, one of those committee calls, I suggested the best practices guide, and I helped draft that best practices guide. You know, whether it's day to day operations best practices, or preparing for your renewal. You know, some people don't understand, you know, of renewal time, uh, what do I need to do now? Well, 90 days before, you know, prior to that, prior to 90 days, you need to be, you need to know what your losses are. You need to take an active interest in your loss. I have quarterly claims reviews with my insurance carrier. I want to know how they're settling my claims. I want to take an active interest in my claims. A lot of folks in this industry don't realize that you can do that. You can tell them, hey, those are my loss, my loss runs. I want to take part in those losses. I want to know what's happening with those claims. Why did you settle for that? Why did you, you know, so you have an understanding and you can adequately explain to another potential carrier everything related to that loss. Oh, you had a 500, 000 loss last year. What was it? I don't know. My insurance, you know, my previous insurance company settled it. Well, why did they settle it? What was the basis of the claim? You need to know the inside and outside of that claim or all of your claims.

Ken Lucci: 38:53

cannot be an observer. You have to be in the mix as a

Mike Rose: 38:57

No. No.

James Blain: 38:59

But as a smaller operator, I think one of the key things here, and one of the biggest reasons a small operator needs an association is exactly what you're talking about, Mike. You don't know what you don't know. You don't get to leverage that mentorship that, hey, I just dealt with this, or hey, I was there, or hey, did you know you can actually say, no, I'm not going to take that. I'm going to send them more. I'm going to do more. I'm going to go here, right? There's so many different things and, and it's, it's every business, but more so when you have experts in your industry, you have that association of people that have not only dealt with these problems, they've probably overcome them and figured out a better way. Instead of like Ken, you were saying you get these backwards companies because they're having to figure out how to solve every problem themselves instead of taking advantage of letting a group of people that have gone through all those potholes say, Hey, let me show you how to drive around that one.

Ken Lucci: 39:55

And they're working, they're so busy seven days a week working in the business. That they don't take a big picture. I'm going to work on my business. The, the association give any association gives the ability to listen to other people's issues going on, listen to other people's suggestions. Well, now you're working on your business, right? Is a, is a big difference. And, and again, if the companies that I've valued and reviewed that, that sit in this Island, right. It's like stepping back into the seventies or eighties. And some of them, believe it or not, still do manual reservations, or they're on some obscure reservation system. There's no connectivity with anybody else. They're, they're emailing and faxing reservations. I saw the other day, somebody literally faxed something. I'm like, I said, what am I in the seventies? What am I in the 1990s? You know,

Mike Rose: 40:48

our technology is only in the 90s in this industry. You know,

Ken Lucci: 40:50

uh,

Mike Rose: 40:51

funny, it's funny you talk about technology. You know, I was recently at a travel summit in New York City and I was talking to a few folks in the airline industry and I said, Are you guys still using that green screen or the black screen of death for, you know, airline segments? And And they are, but, but they put a pretty skin on the front of it, you know, but you think about how much money is spent in the travel sector, just travel in general, right, in the course of a year, and the technology is so far behind, and, you know, whether it's, you know, Ground transportation travel, whether it's air travel, uh, technology is just, you know, it needs to, to come into the, the, you know, the new, uh, the new generations. But it's, uh, it's, it certainly is a challenge. And, you know, you talked about, you know, Samsara, one of those apps. You know, having those applications are great, they're wonderful, but you have to utilize them.

Ken Lucci: 41:45

have to manage by

Mike Rose: 41:47

have to manage by them. And same thing with the training program. You know, we recently, this year, we adopted a new training program and platform. And, you know, yes, it's a recurring fee every month that I didn't want to take on. But I said, if I'm going to do it, we're going to do it 100%. And, you know, we were concerned about the adoption of that training program from our existing chauffeurs. Um,

Ken Lucci: 42:09

What's the name of that program? I'm sorry.

Mike Rose: 42:12

that's the PACS training

Ken Lucci: 42:13

Oh, it's PAX. How do you spell that? How do you spell

Mike Rose: 42:15

But, but you know, prior to me rolling that out, you know I, I did it just for our new hires, because I didn't want to take on the expense of rolling it out to our entire chauffeur staff. But, you know, I said how are we going to do this, how are we going to make sure that we get a full 100 percent adoption,

Ken Lucci: 42:32

It's an investment.

Mike Rose: 42:33

Well, it absolutely is, but I will tell you that, you know, we found a way through our, our, we do offer seasonal bonuses here. So I said, okay, well, you know, we're going to have a chauffeur's meeting. We're going to roll out this new training program in a chauffeur's meeting. We're going to tell everybody about this program. We're going to walk them through it. And we're going to say, hey, these seasonal bonuses that we do are now driven by your adoption of this training program. And guess what? 85 percent of those folks quickly adopted it. The other 15%, they're coming in line pretty quick. And if you look at our, you know, adoption right now, we're probably up to about 99 percent in short time to get the adoption and, you know, the recurring training. And I will tell you that, you know, we have seen it's been a game changer because the customer service level and the responses that we're getting back on a daily basis from our clients has been phenomenal. Fantastic. And most of it is, is driven by the new chauffeurs coming on board because they're all receiving the same training. And one thing that I've noticed, you know, many years ago in this industry, you can have the best chauffeur trainer. He can have a training class every week or every two weeks, but guess what? The uniformity, there's no uniformity to the training because his message is the same. changes a little bit from week to week. He forgets something this week, he forgot something two weeks ago, and you find out about it two months ago. Well, what we're seeing today is all of our chauffeurs are being trained the same exact way. There's continuity in the training program, and that continuity in the training program is evident every day in our responses, our customer service surveys that we're getting back,

Ken Lucci: 44:19

Well, I think about

James Blain: 44:20

back to the insurance as well,

Ken Lucci: 44:22

Oh, absolutely.

Mike Rose: 44:23

Yep.

James Blain: 44:23

if you're, if you're having better continuity, if you're getting better training, you're going to get better results. Not only that you mentioned insurance renewals, when it comes time to show that insurance company, what you're doing, you now have trackable verifiable records that you're going to be able to submit and show them on what you're doing. Not only that. God forbid an accident ever happens. One of the first things they're going for now, they're not going to go after that. Chauffeur they're coming after you as the owner of the company. And so being able to go in and say, not only do we have a training program, we've got a training program where we're keeping track of everything they do. We're doing it ongoing. Here's all the records. Here's all the dates. Here's how much time was spent on it. It takes away one of the avenues they have to go after you,

Ken Lucci: 45:08

Well, I think about it this way. Think about it this way. Also, when you're up against somebody in the corporate environment, where you've got a corporate, uh, a, uh, a buyer, a procurement officer and they say, Mike, You're 9 percent higher than so and so. Let me show you why. Here's my safety statistics. Here are my five star reviews. Here's my training program. Look at the adoption. This is how seriously we take what we do. And I and you know, our risk is lower than anybody else around. So it does make a big difference across the board.

Mike Rose: 45:46

Same thing with the cameras and telematics in the vehicle? It's only as good as the management team behind it that's utilizing it, you know, when you see a chauffeur that has the same recurring theme every day, harsh driving, sudden stops, you

Ken Lucci: 46:02

harsh breaking.

Mike Rose: 46:04

Yeah, heartbreaking. You bring them in, you counsel them. If you don't see an improvement, well then you go to the next level of, you know, uh, um, education, uh, and or, you know, suspensions, firings, because they're not a good fit for your, you know, your business model.

Ken Lucci: 46:20

Let them go down the street and cause havoc somewhere else.

Mike Rose: 46:23

Absolutely. Go, go deliver, go deliver pizzas.

Ken Lucci: 46:26

Yep.

James Blain: 46:26

I think that's something that, that I hear owners struggle with the most, right? Is understanding that sometimes it is better to be a little understaffed and have a team of A players than letting those guys that shouldn't be driving for you, drive for you cause you're trying to cover everything in house and you feel like you need them.

Ken Lucci: 46:47

And there's so many reasons not to, there's so many reasons to adopt the A player model and continually train the A players.

James Blain: 46:56

yes.

Mike Rose: 46:56

I, I learned a long time ago that, you know, if you think somebody is a potential accident waiting to happen, don't do it. They probably are. So, cut your losses now before, unfortunately, you have that big loss. That

Ken Lucci: 47:12

hour. If we had the other Rose brother, we could keep you guys here all afternoon. So maybe we'll, maybe we'll do that again. We'll have the Rose brothers, we'll have the Rose brothers on, that would be an, I think an

Mike Rose: 47:25

We have very different personalities, Ken, as you've

Ken Lucci: 47:30

Yeah, we might have to have the button that maybe, you know, silences

Mike Rose: 47:34

Yes.

Ken Lucci: 47:35

shut the microphones up. So Mike, Mike, thank you so much for taking the time. You run an impressive operation. Um, the fact that you've stepped up to do to lead the association also as you're growing your business, that that says a lot about your commitment to the industry. And we need we need more leaders like you in the industry. So.

Mike Rose: 47:57

Thank you. The guys always say, you know, how do you find the time? It's all about time management and, you know, budgeting your time appropriately. In addition to all the other things that I do that we didn't talk about, you know.

James Blain: 48:09

And I also want to say a big thank you for the community service you do. The firefighters, you know, police officers, anyone that works in that part of the community doesn't get enough recognition. So the fact that you find enough time to do what you do and still serve your community is something I really look up to you for.

Ken Lucci: 48:25

Absolutely.

Mike Rose: 48:26

it. Absolutely.

Ken Lucci: 48:27

And we'll have you back again.

James Blain: 48:28

Absolutely.

Mike Rose: 48:29

Thank you, gentlemen. It's been an honor.

48:32

Thank you for listening to the ground transportation podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe to the show on apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information about PAX training and to contact James, go to PAX training.com. And for more information about driving transactions and to contact Ken, Go to driving transactions.com. We'll see you next time on the ground transportation podcast.