Ken Lucci: 0:26

Well good afternoon and welcome to another exciting episode of the Ground Transportation Podcast. My name is Ken Lucci with Driving Transactions with my co host James Blaine from PAX Training.

James Blain: 0:39

Hey everybody.

Ken Lucci: 0:40

And I am honored to introduce our special guest Jess Sandhu

Jess Sandhu: 0:44

Hi everyone.

Ken Lucci: 0:45

Jess is one of the co owners of ANA Transportation up in Seattle, Washington, and he is one of our clients from a financial perspective. And I asked him to come on because he is probably one of the most profitable, companies of his size. Jess, how much a year, uh, annual revenue, roughly?

Jess Sandhu: 1:06

Uh, roughly we're about, I think this year we're going to be hitting close to six million.

Ken Lucci: 1:09

Excellent. Excellent. So you've grown it from, from scratch.

Jess Sandhu: 1:14

Yep, we have.

Ken Lucci: 1:15

Okay, so give us an idea, give us a background of ANA, give us a background of yours as well. And we also want to give a shout out to the brains of the operation who couldn't be with us today. His name is Harry Sandu. Harry's the father and Harry absolutely is the brains of the operation, but you know, Jess is the speaker today. So just tell us a little bit, tell us about how you got into it. Tell us about ANA over the course of history and then ANA today, please.

Jess Sandhu: 1:44

Got it. Hey, so, um, my family came from a transportation background in Southeast Asia and we had an opportunity to migrate to the U. S. for my further studies and all that. So my dad took it and he, we, he sold everything and we moved to the U. S. And we started I think Believe it was 1993. We started as a taxi cab company

Ken Lucci: 2:07

Really?

Jess Sandhu: 2:08

Yeah, we were a taxi cab company. We had a couple of cabs. I was in college and then then my dad just bought a limo and I think what happened was he had a heart attack or Something so he had to go to the hospital. I was running basically the transportation company. I didn't know anything about it Cell phones were like like a dollar a pound A minute back then and so I ran it. I was like, wow, this is fun. So then slowly he bought one. He bought another and we had drivers and then came 98 when I graduated from college and this is what I wanted to be doing.

Ken Lucci: 2:44

What was your degree in?

Jess Sandhu: 2:46

Business.

Ken Lucci: 2:47

Nice.

Jess Sandhu: 2:48

Business management.

Ken Lucci: 2:49

what's your home country? Where did you guys migrate from?

Jess Sandhu: 2:52

So we are we are from Indian origin, but we grew up in Singapore and Malaysia.

James Blain: 2:58

So how big was that company over there before you get, you know, I mean, trying to kind of get that gauge of where you

Jess Sandhu: 3:04

we were about, uh, I think we had about 60 buses,

James Blain: 3:07

Okay.

Jess Sandhu: 3:08

60 buses, 50 or 60 buses,

James Blain: 3:09

Why go into taxi then? Why not stick with kind of the buses and that what, what made your

Jess Sandhu: 3:13

Well, um,

James Blain: 3:15

side?

Jess Sandhu: 3:16

that's what everybody was doing. All the Indians were doing cabs back then. I mean, he went to New York, he went to visit some friends, he went to here, the guy had a cab company. Back then when I used to go to the Sikh temple, everybody had a cab. Yeah. Everybody, everybody had a cab. All the Sikhs were cab drivers. It

Ken Lucci: 3:33

What brought you to Seattle?

Jess Sandhu: 3:35

we had a couple of relatives living here. And, basically we just decided Seattle, it was growing. And we did move to California for six months, but realized that Seattle is where everybody was happening. And we moved back to Seattle right after that. And we've stayed here ever since then. And we've grown our roots here.

Ken Lucci: 3:53

so when, how did you, when did you transition from taxi to limo

Jess Sandhu: 3:58

It was just in the, uh, transportation field. I mean, you have taxis and limos. It was back then if you wanted to go to the airport, it was an Uber. It wasn't a limo. It was a taxi. You take a taxi. And then my dad saw that there were always six people, seven people. Back then there were no SUVs. No one was running SUVs. So everybody bought limos. So we had the six passenger limo, which was a 56 inch stretch. Funny story was, when I, when I turned 21, we had a party. I drove that limo to the restaurant, so I, so, and I drove it back. So it was either, to my own 21st birthday. So, it was like, either I drove a limo or I get drunk. So I drove a limo on my 21st birthday. I drove to my own party and I drove it back from my own party with the family and everything. Riding and I was like, because you know, I was a born driver. and I was like, wow, that's amazing. And then slowly we went into, back then town cars was just coming on, you know, back in 1995, 96. We were just coming back on and then slowly we went to town cars. And then that's how the, the, uh, limousine site happened. And it was all airport.

Ken Lucci: 5:05

taxis?

Jess Sandhu: 5:06

I believe it was right after I got off of college, I think it was 2000 It was 1998, sorry. I think 99 was the year when my dad went to the first limo show by himself. And he became an NLA member in 99.

Ken Lucci: 5:19

No kidding.

Jess Sandhu: 5:20

Yeah. I was like, okay, fine. Let's I I didn't know anything and I didn't so I and then You know back then it was limos. Everybody had the biggest limos. It was all about limos limos limos

Ken Lucci: 5:33

And when did you transition from, when did you, what made you make the transition from the stretch limousine or, you know, limousine provider to more of the bus side? When did you make that transition?

Jess Sandhu: 5:46

Well, I believe it was uh 2000 So let me give you a little bit of background before that. So before 9 11, since Microsoft was here, all I did was limos. I, we used to have limos going on five days a week, six days a week back then, because all these new kids were coming to Microsoft and they had crazy money. They didn't know what to do with the money. They used to party. We used to go five o'clock to Microsoft and they will just take us out till midnight and there was crazy money. So that, then came 9 11, then we had, you know, there was a lot of things then. Then we decided to buy one of the longest limo, which was, I believe, a 2007 Escalade, which was a 24 passenger. So in order to, so in order to have that, um, we knew that we had to get CDLs and we had to get a bus license. So we bought that, I think it was in, so we got that built, everything came in, in April. And then my dad say, well, now you have a bus license, why, and we are getting the bus, uh, permit, why don't we actually buy a bus. Yeah, so we bought a bus, we bought a, I think our first bus was 6, 000. And we spent about 3000 painting and everything. And basically we, within I think three weeks, we went into a brand new bus. We were like, wow,

James Blain: 6:58

Just headfirst, right? Well, I mean, but, but you were there before, right? So that kind of, kind of like I asked earlier. Now, at that point, you're back to where you were before you guys came over and started here in the U S.

Jess Sandhu: 7:08

Correct. Yeah, exactly. So it was just a small 24 passenger bus with real luggage. It was nothing fancy. And, uh, you know, it's, it, and it just, you know, we bought one, we bought two, we bought three, and we just keep multiplying. And we were, we, my dad was like, wait a minute, you can do one bus trip and make five airport trips. And he's like, why aren't we doing more of this?

Ken Lucci: 7:32

Yeah.

Jess Sandhu: 7:33

And then slowly, you know, it just built from there and we were sort of building the the brand name and everything.

Ken Lucci: 7:38

So were stretchy. Had a lot of stretches back in the

Jess Sandhu: 7:42

Mm hmm. We did.

Ken Lucci: 7:43

but you, you successfully pivoted. First you had sprinter limos and then executive sprinters, but you've pivoted pretty much, pretty much, A large part of your business now is mini bus and, and bus. And bus. And not motor coaches, but school buses, activity buses.

Jess Sandhu: 8:01

Correct. Then we then we realized that the twenty four and the thirty two passengers was our bread and butter. Those were the workhorses, the twenty four, the twenty eight, the thirty two, and then we were already serving the school and then guess what? Then came COVID. We came out of COVID. We already had relationships. We, the school, the private schools came out with guidelines. They were like, okay, the buses need to have windows that open up. Thank God we have, we had some StarCraft buses that, that, that the, the, they call it the, uh, the, uh, T sliders opened up. So Fresh Air could, could, uh, could, uh, um, get in. In fact, I had to retrofit a bus, uh, with six brand new windows so I can, I can open up the windows. And, uh, Because we had that relationship with the school, they came up to me and say, how, the first, the first offer was, how could you come to me and, and, uh, how could you get me drivers? That was my first, like, like, basically I provided drivers, they had their buses. So I went down and saw their buses. I was like, my god, this is when, uh, James was, was probably in, uh, elementary school. You know, they're still running old buses and all that, and I was like, wow. So then I said, no, I'm sorry. I said, I really can't do this. I said, uh, it's just too much to maintain somebody else's fleet. And then they came back to me, okay, how would you like to do to, uh, one route? I said, great. I said, well, the very next day I went down and I bought two buses. And I told the school I bought two. Well, the school was like, why did you buy two? We just need one bus. I said, well, I need a backup bus.

Ken Lucci: 9:40

Sure.

Jess Sandhu: 9:41

And, uh, so two buses realistically cost me 65, 000, which is the price of one suburban.

Ken Lucci: 9:48

Yep.

James Blain: 9:48

when was this, this is coming

Jess Sandhu: 9:50

This was in, yeah, 2021, 2021. This was coming out of COVID and we were like, okay, we are hungry. We were, you know, all of us have, you know, all, all, most of the savings were gone. We're trying to see how, what the, uh, the, uh, next step was for the company. I mean, I was thinking I was. Yeah, exactly, because I was thinking I was going, I was going to go out and buy motorcoaches. Seriously, but then, uh, I thought I could get them cheap, but that did not happen. So, then came the school bus division, because they were, they were lack of school bus drivers. A lot of the older, uh, school bus drivers were afraid to come back to driving school buses Because you know, so there was a lot of that and this and that and then So the school was smart. I mean one one of the school was really smart. They were like, okay Let me give you a small pie of it And they were like wow You guys deliver I used to get calls at four o'clock from the school. Hey, one of my one of my bus driver is Is not coming today. And can you can you Can you cover this route and i'll be like sure so I used to get up at 4 30 and And go pick up a bus from from my yard and just go do it and they were like wow, that is amazing

James Blain: 11:01

but you're going above and beyond, right? You're going out of your way and doing it yourself to

Jess Sandhu: 11:05

I was

James Blain: 11:06

And they know they can count on you, which is why that starts to

Jess Sandhu: 11:09

Yeah, exactly they would they'd be like four o'clock in the morning he would call me and said hey I know you already have two routes, but can you go and cover this route for for one day or two days? So I did that I actually, I actually did that on a 44 passenger executive bus. And, you

Ken Lucci: 11:24

the kids in a 44 passenger executive bus,

Jess Sandhu: 11:27

bus, yeah, I, I did all that. I mean,

Ken Lucci: 11:30

know, but you, you, you really, you guys pivoted when this came up. You could have basically said, no, I don't, I don't do schools, I don't do private schools. I don't do

Jess Sandhu: 11:41

No,

Ken Lucci: 11:42

et cetera. But you, you took the opportunity to pivot and you, you first, I think proactively, you made the decision to pivot away from stretch limousines.

Jess Sandhu: 11:54

we did that, right?

Ken Lucci: 11:55

And talk about how have you been able to, cause you have very little turnover. I'm going to brag on you a little bit. You have practically no debt. unbelievable profitability for the size for your size company. and don't say it because because Harry is is frugal.

Jess Sandhu: 12:13

Yes.

Ken Lucci: 12:14

it's but it's because you keep your overhead low,

Jess Sandhu: 12:17

I do, I do, I

Ken Lucci: 12:18

and, you invest in equipment and you invest in your people. You have practically no turnover of drivers. How did how did that happen? And how do you how does that work?

Jess Sandhu: 12:28

Well, A long time ago, I think it was in 2004, I went for a site visit. I think, I can't remember, I don't want to say the name of the company, but it was a company in the New York area. And I walked in, and the first thing I saw was, no drivers beyond this point. there's a

Ken Lucci: 12:44

chauffeured company

Jess Sandhu: 12:46

This was a chauffeured company, so I went to see them, and I, and then, so there was, basically, you walked in the office. And there was a like a small area and it was his no chauffeurs, no drivers beyond this point. And on the right of the office was the dispatcher yelling at the driver. He was yelling at the driver and I was like, Hmm. And then that company had a high turnover rate and the owner couldn't see why.

James Blain: 13:10

But you figured it out when you walked in the

Jess Sandhu: 13:12

I did. I did. And I was like, wait a minute. This is not right. This is, you know, you're treating them like they are like second class citizens, correct? You're not allowed, like, mine, they're, they're coming up to me and, you know, they're, they're discussing, they're telling me, hey, you know, Uh, my wife's pregnant, I say congratulations, you know, stuff like that, little things like that, you know, like, hey, uh, you know, if there's any issues, they can come to me. I mean, it's not like, you know, even at night, you know, if there's a little issue, there's, if they need help, you know, anything. I mean, I have that open door policy. Yeah, what is this? I haven't, yeah.

Ken Lucci: 13:53

The other piece of that is I know you spend a lot of time and money maintaining your fleet. There's probably, when I watch, see on Facebook, if somebody's got a question on a part, the most obscure part in the world.

James Blain: 14:06

matter what it is.

Ken Lucci: 14:07

Doesn't matter what it is, he knows it off the top of his head.

James Blain: 14:11

And he's usually the first one to respond. That's the thing that I always love is that no, nobody commands Facebook like Jess, when it comes to parts or windows, they're really just posting it, so Jess will go on there and

Jess Sandhu: 14:21

Yeah, exactly. I'm, you know, like, it's like weird things, like, oh my god, that's, that's a 36x36 window. It's on eBay. It's like 200 bucks on eBay. Just go buy it, you know, but, but

Ken Lucci: 14:32

because you've gone through a lot of it in the

Jess Sandhu: 14:34

I have, I have, I,

Ken Lucci: 14:35

you have an incredible amount of knowledge on the operations and mechanical side.

Jess Sandhu: 14:39

I do, and that's because when, uh, one of my first mechanic that my dad used, um, for our taxi business, uh, when I used to bring a taxi or a limo to him, he'll be like, okay, jack that up. And, uh, open up the, uh, the, uh, tires. He used to make me do things.

Ken Lucci: 14:57

And you're right, to your point, know, you're respected because you know every piece of the business and you've done every piece of the business. But you know, the funniest, funny thing is, he does not, for six million, how many people do you have doing reservations and dispatching?

Jess Sandhu: 15:13

Um, ri

Ken Lucci: 15:14

million dollar company.

Jess Sandhu: 15:14

Right now, I believe I have two people working.

Ken Lucci: 15:17

Okay. Talk to, talk to us about, no one will believe it, but it's true. Talk about the technology side of the business because you've been, you, you were a pioneer on pivoting away from stretch limousines and

Jess Sandhu: 15:29

Mm hmm.

Ken Lucci: 15:30

institutional clients, corporate clients, group and meetings, sprinters, minivans, etc. Talk to us about the technology aspects and, and how technologies change your business.

Jess Sandhu: 15:41

Of course, and you know, it's so funny because here's what it is. Um, and I tell this, and I have the same speech, for the last five, six years. If, if, uh, if our good friend, Douglas Schwartz wants to buy, um, his underwear or boxers, which he wears a lot

Ken Lucci: 16:01

love the Douglas.

Jess Sandhu: 16:03

Yeah. What a specific example So, so, so, so, so, so, uh, Yep, so Dougie is not going to call Amazon at 206 266 1000. He's going to go to Amazon.com find out what he wants, and he orders them. Op, if he doesn't want it, he'll put it in the cart, he'll come back, it's still there, or he will see, he'll get reminders. So, why and, why can't we do the same thing on the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, um, the limousine side Well, we have. There was a company, which James remembers Book.limo He was the first one that

James Blain: 16:37

Ryan Hildebirth.

Jess Sandhu: 16:38

Ryan Yeah, exactly. He was the first one that came up in 2005, and he had this wonderful product which we were all using, and it was an, a very true online booking tool. Great at that time, but it still wasn't enough, because what we need, what, what book. limo was missing was the sales aspect of it, the, uh, the, uh, the sales funnel. Then came add ons.

Ken Lucci: 17:05

management.

Jess Sandhu: 17:07

Yep, exactly. So then came add ons. Add ons in 2000 and, uh, I think it was 2008. Uh, 2018 was when I met Mike, uh, up in, Mike, Mike, exactly, in, uh, Atlantic City and Andy. And they were saying, you know, yep, exactly. So Andy Norman came up and said, you know, Jess, we have a product that we are launching. And we want you to be the one, one of the first ones. So I said, great. I love it. I said, and they asked was amazing too. It was an amazing too. When, when, uh, when book dot limo went down back in, I think it was 2018 or something,

James Blain: 17:50

Yeah. Yeah. It would have been around

Jess Sandhu: 17:51

yeah, I think it went down for about two, three weeks. I noticed our full volume just went up.

Ken Lucci: 17:57

Yeah.

Jess Sandhu: 17:58

You know?

Ken Lucci: 17:59

Yeah.

Jess Sandhu: 17:59

And what I was trying to do was I was trying to stop those, those, uh, crazy calls like, how much is a limo? How much is a limo? How

Ken Lucci: 18:06

o'clock, ten o'clock at

Jess Sandhu: 18:08

At night, yeah, how much is a limo? How

Ken Lucci: 18:09

much is it to the airport? Eleven

Jess Sandhu: 18:11

Yeah, how much is at the airport?

Ken Lucci: 18:12

at night for two weeks from now. How much is it to go to the airport? Yeah.

Jess Sandhu: 18:16

Exactly. And we don't need those kind of calls. Everything's online. Everything's online with the sales funnel that, uh, Mike, uh, with the add on teams that have, that have created this and I was very fortunate because during COVID is when I set up my, uh, my whole add on things and Mike was available because there was nothing going on, but

James Blain: 18:37

but you were preparing, you were getting ready for when it came back. It had to come back.

Jess Sandhu: 18:41

Yeah, I had to do all these crazy things to do, you know, just so, so Mike was amazing. He showed me everything, you know, he had plenty of time back then. Now I know he doesn't have time. He's busy, busy, busy, but back then he had, he had, he had all the time in the world. I used to call him at six o'clock, uh, Pacific standard time, which was nine o'clock his time. And he will actually answer my call and we got that set up. We got it running and it was, I was like, I was blown away. I was blown away. I mean, we have competitors here that, that basically have, they spend a lot of money on add ons, but they don't have a closer. They don't have a closing tool. And LeetCodeClose is that answer. Two years ago, I think, uh, Santa Cruz was going to launch something very similar. I'm not sure if they have yet,

Ken Lucci: 19:28

It's still on the roadmap.

Jess Sandhu: 19:30

still on the roadmap. You see, so, no, I don't,

James Blain: 19:32

I don't even know that I've heard about it recently.

Jess Sandhu: 19:34

So, and,

Ken Lucci: 19:35

be careful, but do

Jess Sandhu: 19:36

no,

Ken Lucci: 19:37

on my face? Nobody can

Jess Sandhu: 19:38

I know.

Ken Lucci: 19:38

They can't see the smirk on a podcast. So

Jess Sandhu: 19:40

So people ask me, like, why are you with Limo Anywhere? Why are you with, because of this, because of this great tool. There's nobody else in the industry that has it. People don't get it. Oh, I hate Limo Anywhere.

Ken Lucci: 19:51

No, let's face it. They built a customized CRM and a sales funnel tool and a quote management system that, and, and. To me, you and Josh Roman from, um, Heaven on Wheels, we sold

Jess Sandhu: 20:08

right. Mm hmm.

Ken Lucci: 20:09

Um, shout out to Josh, he's now in a great industry, he's happy as hell. And we sold his company. And that's how I met Jess, by the way. But Josh, what sold Josh's company, was him on a Zoom, showing me, Oh, Ken, I have 195 quotes open. I've sold 97. That's a quick that that that is the equivalent of 128, 000. You see these quotes. We're working on these quotes today. And and to me, to Jess's point, you know, the reality is corporate. corporate. procurement officers 84 percent of the time when they're looking for a new provider, they're looking online and then they're going to read your reviews. They're looking online, weddings, brides, etcetera. They're looking online. So how do you facilitate 6 million with two people? Okay. Now, listen, he's got some good institutional customers, but even if it's a 4 million, the institutional customers are scheduled, even if it's 4 million bucks, how do you do that with two people without the technology in place? That was the smartest thing he did during the downtime.

Jess Sandhu: 21:16

I did, and, and here's the funny thing was me and Josh Roman, I think it was back in 2015. I've known him all, all, all my life, but when, back in 2015 that we were at the limo show and there was this company that was launching the coding tool or code something for, for, for, uh, for us because I was looking, like for example, I was looking for something to present to my clients when they want to code.

Ken Lucci: 21:41

Yep.

Jess Sandhu: 21:42

You know, I, I was looking for something to present to my clients. I was looking for something that we can put like a, you know, like, like a picture of a bus and all that and, uh, or something. And there was nothing out there in 2016

Ken Lucci: 21:54

scratch

Jess Sandhu: 21:55

or 15. A company came close, but we, and it was based in India. But the funny thing was, it was so difficult. Me and Josh, we used to call each other up and we set up the emails. We did everything and there was nobody else. There was nobody, like, like, I need something to send to my corporate clients, like, hey, you want three buses at Expedia. Okay, here are the three buses. This is the cost. This is your total. And this is what I want you to, you know, this is the whole price. There was nothing out there. I mean, we used to send an email. Hi, Mr. Smith. This is the price for the limo regard. Thank you. Please let me know if you have any questions. Yep, exactly. We

James Blain: 22:36

look like then, right? Obviously now you're down to two. How many did you have back then?

Jess Sandhu: 22:39

have five.

James Blain: 22:40

the work of five people is now being done by two.

Ken Lucci: 22:43

And when you consider when we will examine his numbers and look at his transaction cost, it's the lowest, it's the lowest around, right?

Jess Sandhu: 22:53

hmm.

Ken Lucci: 22:54

the way we do that is simple. We take a look at the reservations and dispatch expense on the P& L and then we divide it by the number of transactions. I've got companies that are 22 per transaction and they're like, well Ken, you know, I have to have the reservation staff there. I'm like, Dude, do you want them working on a 15, 000 to 2, 000 bus run, or do you want them working on a 150 airport

Jess Sandhu: 23:20

trip. Yeah.

Ken Lucci: 23:21

your transaction cost is going to be the same. So, you know, the vanilla ice cream reservations, try to get them online, but he's taken it to another level. Other people, I mean, he literally, when people will call, he will let them know, geez, do you know that you can do all of this online? It's all on our, on our website. And

Jess Sandhu: 23:44

And I just had a Meta uh, which is Facebook, uh, a Meta client just booked a bus for a Christmas party online before I got on on the, podcast, a corporate employee, a corporate assistant does not have time to call. They want to be able to go online and just look at the rate. And I could be the most expensive company. They don't care because they are not the one paying for it. They just want the ease. Okay, it's

Ken Lucci: 24:08

Friday. And they want it done.

Jess Sandhu: 24:09

They want it done. They want it done.

James Blain: 24:11

Get onto the

Jess Sandhu: 24:11

task Yep, it

Ken Lucci: 24:13

the other piece of this puzzle is. All of the people in the corporate travel departments are young. Well, certainly a lot younger than me. But these are the kids that do everything on their smartphones. Everything online. And when I hear operators say, Well, my customers like to call

Jess Sandhu: 24:28

Mm hmm.

Ken Lucci: 24:30

62 years old, is going to be sliding out into retirement pretty damn quick. And what's going to happen is, Millennials are going to choose based on the ease of their job. that's what, you know, and, and what intrigued me when, when we started working with, with Jess was when you looked at the profitability of this business, I would say, why isn't every company, he's come up right the same way he's come up the same, look, he had a great background in, in bus. Harry is an absolute genius as far as I can see. Right. But he could have stayed with limo. And he could have just been married to being in love with Fleet, but technology is really what's driving his business. You know, and he's, you're also being a little modest because people have told me add ons is very tough, very difficult to set up and manage. Talk a little bit about that.

Jess Sandhu: 25:29

You know, you know, yes, it is a bit difficult, but once you get, uh, through the hurdles, okay? Basically, my add ons, I believe I have not touched it for the last three years, that much. So

Ken Lucci: 25:42

once you set it

Jess Sandhu: 25:43

once you set it up, I mean, yes, I've increased the prices, I've added but the hard part is setting it up, but once you have set it up, you know, and then came, uh, Bill Fade, who was like, I think was like, I believe six years ago, Bill Fade told me, Jess, you should have it on every single page. Not just the main page. You should have it on the fleet page. You should have it here. You should have it on your city pages. You should have it everywhere. And then I went crazy and just put it everywhere. You know, and of course, I do have some, SEO knowledge and I do have some, knowledge about that too, so, so, I was, it was really helpful, but,

Ken Lucci: 26:19

Talk about your position in the market. You are by no means the least expensive in your market.

Jess Sandhu: 26:25

No, I'm not, I'm probably going to say I'm one of the, I'm right at about the 70, 70 percent right there, per style, medium high,

Ken Lucci: 26:33

medium high. That's how you build profitability and

Jess Sandhu: 26:36

right. Right. Yeah, it is. But the benefit is, you know, number, number one thing I, I do see people not, not doing in this industry is staying humble. You know, I still answer the calls. I tell my staff, if there's somebody that has a huge wedding, they need six, seven buses, transfer the call to me. I want to talk to them. If there's a big corporate event, talk, you know, have them talk to me. You know, and that's the main thing. I'm not driving out there every day. I'm not on my cell phone. I'm actually have a very expensive phone system, which is high definition. And that's one of the things that I noticed. Most of my competitors are talking on the phone while driving.

Ken Lucci: 27:15

Yeah, they're on their cell phones.

Jess Sandhu: 27:16

They're all, everybody's on the cell phone. Nobody technically has an office anymore.

Ken Lucci: 27:20

no, but, your organization is also flat. Meaning you don't have a ton of management.

Jess Sandhu: 27:25

No.

Ken Lucci: 27:26

and it's family based. It's family based. It's family based.

Jess Sandhu: 27:30

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Ken Lucci: 27:32

made the move into what I call institutional, you know, meaning the private school side. But talk about the rest of the customer makeup that you have.

Jess Sandhu: 27:44

My number one client, which everybody knows, I reposted this on Facebook, is Microsoft. And they're back with a vengeance. They are spending more money than they have since pre COVID. They are back. And it's true, you know, whether it's dealing directly with them or through DMCs.

Ken Lucci: 28:01

DMCs is a big piece of your business.

Jess Sandhu: 28:03

DMC is the big piece of pieces. I, I have four of the five big DMCs

Ken Lucci: 28:07

Why do they use you? Why did, why does a DMC keep coming back to you?

Jess Sandhu: 28:11

I'm available. I can talk to them. If they want, if they want, they can just call me. They have my cell phone numbers, if they really, if they really need me. But everything is done through email. the one DMC that I don't have, I don't want them. I actually fired them. Because they were being too much and I said, I'm, I'm, I'm done. So I have four of the five big ones.

James Blain: 28:31

but that's a really good position to be in. And that's something I'd want, I'd like you to expand a little bit on

Jess Sandhu: 28:36

So,

James Blain: 28:37

lot of people that think they have to keep a client no matter what.

Ken Lucci: 28:40

And they have to be the lowest price.

Jess Sandhu: 28:42

they have to be, yes. Yes.

James Blain: 28:44

really what you want.

Jess Sandhu: 28:45

It has to do something with, I think, availability and being the one stop shop. I think just being, having the right equipment and having the buses and all that. Although I do have, I do have noticed that this year a lot of my DMCs are booking the buses, but they are not booking the airport transportation. Which has gone down, but that's

James Blain: 29:05

Is that being taken by Uber or

Jess Sandhu: 29:07

that's been taken by Uber. I think that they, it has been taken by Uber, but I'm trying to pivot back because I'm talking about women's safety and I'm also talking about, you know, they don't have to wait 30 minutes in the long Uber line in the garage or anything like that. We know we are right there. So there is a, there is a pivot for next year.

Ken Lucci: 29:27

Yep. Now, are you going to do that with in house? Are you going to do a combination of in house and IO? How are you going to approach that?

Jess Sandhu: 29:33

Most of it, most of my work is actually done in house. The one thing good about me is that, because I have all these bus drivers, sometimes, you know, not all the buses go out. So I can pivot them into sedans and SUVs, and, and I've been doing that. You know, and so, it does work well. Like, we had a situation about, I think three weeks ago, when, the show was happening, and we ran out of buses. And we have, you know, business people that are working, uh, due to, you know, maintenance or whatever, but we have sprinters. So, I told the client, good. I'll charge you the same amount of money. We have sprinters. Can I bring in sprinters? They said, just you do whatever you want to do. And those are the kind of clients I love. You do whatever you want to do. you

James Blain: 30:07

your judgment and they allow you.

Jess Sandhu: 30:09

say, just make it happen. They say, we don't care. Just make it happen. And that's the main thing is, you know, you know, I mean, of course, I come, you know, Seattle, we have so many fortune 500 companies. We have Microsoft, Boeing, we have so many events going on every time. And besides me and I believe one other company, there's really no one else to handle it here in the market. So if any of the companies want to come to Seattle, please come.

Ken Lucci: 30:37

So,

Jess Sandhu: 30:37

plenty of work.

Ken Lucci: 30:39

do you attract and keep your CDL drivers? Because you've done a great job. I don't see you perpetually shorthanded of CDL drivers.

Jess Sandhu: 30:50

No, I'm not. I'm fully

Ken Lucci: 30:51

How did that happen?

Jess Sandhu: 30:53

Well, that's it. Just, you know, many companies think, like, just because that guy has a CDL, he can drive any bus. Or, for example, I have a 65 year old guy who's really great with senior citizens. I'm going to send him to all my senior homes. I have a couple of staff that are great with kids and coaches, so they are Then, of course, I have that, the The elite drivers, which have been with me for many years, and they know every single building in Microsoft. They know every single building. They basically just know everything. And those are the guys that always do my high end work. So there's always this, you know, like I, you know, I have school bus drivers. Which I cannot send to a corporate job. Because I know they're going to screw it up. So everybody, every employee has their limitations. Oh, when I

James Blain: 31:44

in their strengths, right? You've identified what they're good at and you're having them work in their strengths, which a lot of companies

Jess Sandhu: 31:50

don't For example, a 68 year old driver does not want to drive a party bus. You know, but a young, yeah, no, of course not. And, so there are all these limitations with each driver, and I've tried to learn from them, and I tried to see, uh, for a brand new driver, every day he comes back from a job, I don't have a two minute conversation with them and see how it went, how they like it, how was it, you know, or stuff like that. There are some drivers that are, we have 73 year old drivers that love doing the school, but if you send them out at, at 10 o'clock at night, they hate it because why it's dark and they're getting old, you know, the, the, the lights flashing and all that. So

Ken Lucci: 32:34

You have to play for your, to your player's strengths. There's no question about it.

Jess Sandhu: 32:39

we do, we do.

Ken Lucci: 32:40

yep. And to your point, you, you treat them like A players. You don't treat them like chattel.

Jess Sandhu: 32:46

No.

Ken Lucci: 32:47

know, um, the days of dispatchers screaming at chauffeurs and CDLs,

Jess Sandhu: 32:51

Mm hmm.

Ken Lucci: 32:51

are permanently over.

Jess Sandhu: 32:53

Actually, it's still happening, believe it or not.

Ken Lucci: 32:56

Oh, in some companies, the turnover,

Jess Sandhu: 32:57

still happening.

Ken Lucci: 32:59

see the turnover in some companies and I talked to some owners and I'm like, it might be a cultural issue. Meaning

Jess Sandhu: 33:08

be, it might be.

Ken Lucci: 33:09

corporate culture has to change. They have to be, they have to be, you have to field your best team and you have to play for your players strengths.

Jess Sandhu: 33:19

You do, you do. And, you know, and every company is different. I've seen them. There are some companies, you know, uh, You can judge a company by how, by how old And that's, that's true. Or how many years has that, that, uh, that employee has worked for that company? My oldest employee is 23 years old. Uh, sorry. He's, he's, uh, been with with me for 23 years. Yeah. My newest employee, I think is six months. So, you know, and, and, I spoke to another company and he's 10 years old. I, I believe he's 11 years old. The company is his newest, his, his oldest employee is, is, uh, 19 months. We're just, we're just crazy,

Ken Lucci: 34:02

Yeah. Listen, we see that when we, when we have companies for sale and they'll send over their staff list and they'll send over their employee, their, their start date and you see it in as 2022 and the company's been in business for 15 years, you know that it's got a cultural issue. It's got a corporate culture problem.

Jess Sandhu: 34:21

Yep.

James Blain: 34:22

it's very interesting because I've dealt with companies where they're trying to solve that, right? They've come in and they've, they've identified, they've said, Hey, we have a turnover problem. Hey, we have this. And it's interesting because if I go back to those companies, I guarantee you, if we start asking the experience, the longer experienced people are going to be when that company figured it out and changed it. You're going to see that change. And it's one of the biggest things that I hear over and over is people want to work at a company where people care about them or what they do matters where the owner actually appreciates them.

Jess Sandhu: 34:56

Right! Appreciative. Yeah.

Ken Lucci: 34:58

And it can't be, you know, it's like the old saying, if you can fake sincerity, you got it made. You, you cannot fake take, you cannot fake taking care of your people. There's across the, across the bridge from me, there's a really, you know, a large network customer of mine. And I went over there for a finance meeting and they were having an, um, a chauffeur's, uh, birthday party.

Jess Sandhu: 35:21

Oh, wow. Yeah.

Ken Lucci: 35:23

and, and this guy had been with him for like, I want to say 18 years. And we would all know who the president of the company is. speaks at all, you know, spoken at our conferences and he got up and he, he led the team, led the employees. And this is what this person means to my business and is meant

Jess Sandhu: 35:40

Wow.

Ken Lucci: 35:41

And so, you know, it is corporate culture now more than ever. especially if you're, if you're doing the remote worker thing, or if you've got a field of, if your people are representing you in the field, they better be happy because we've all seen. We've all seen when we've been picked up by drivers and you can tell they're miserable. They're just miserable at what they do. So, so talk to us about where you see Seattle going, where you see your market going. Do you see low price competitors that are you worried about low price competition

Jess Sandhu: 36:19

I,

Ken Lucci: 36:20

feel you overcome that?

Jess Sandhu: 36:22

I think we have overcome that. I think we have good reviews and just a strong hold of the market. I think we have definitely overcome that. I believe 89 on, I think it's more like 95 percent of the limo companies in Seattle right now are one to two car operators, you know, and, uh, you know, and there, there is a market for them to, I mean, they basically, we have a call from an IO every day and You know, it is sad because right now I think every market is going through a slow times right now,

Ken Lucci: 36:54

Yes, they are.

Jess Sandhu: 36:56

except for Florida and, uh, and, uh, Arizona. But besides that, you know, events are because it's Thanksgiving, it's Christmas, you know, everything is, is coming down. But, uh, but I believe Seattle is with, with that many Fortune 500 companies in Seattle. I believe Seattle is, Seattle and San Francisco are, I think, the two of the strongest cities.

Ken Lucci: 37:19

Yep.

Jess Sandhu: 37:20

Happening. Mm hmm. Mm

Ken Lucci: 37:23

some really great relationships you've relied on. You've got a great insurance guy that you do business with. You dad has great relationships with the manufacturers of the equipment and

Jess Sandhu: 37:35

hmm.

Ken Lucci: 37:35

Talk to us about the importance of that.

Jess Sandhu: 37:39

Uh, well, number one is insurance. We have been with the same insurance guy, I believe, for the last 27, 28 years old. Uh, 28. Yeah, he does. He takes care of me. Uh, he, uh, You know, every time he meets, he said, I have everything covered from my personal properties to my houses, to my rental properties, to the business. He said, I have everything covered. I just opened up a brand new dealerships, uh, a very small used car dealership, and he's having a hard time getting me insurance on that, that part of the business. So, yeah, another business,

James Blain: 38:11

with you on everything, right? This is someone that's guided you through all of your insurance needs, right?

Jess Sandhu: 38:16

Yeah, he has, and he's having a hard time for a new business. Which is my used car dealership because I get, my dad has this old school contacts with like, uh, with like banks and I don't know where he get way, how he did it, but right before COVID happened, I went down to Vegas to pick up a sprinter, which was five years old and never read and never, ever registered from the bank has 700 miles on it.

James Blain: 38:44

Wow.

Jess Sandhu: 38:44

Literally, and I don't know where he gets his dealers. Sometimes we get a lot of these deals. So I say, you know what, let me open up a, uh, used car dealership so I can buy these vehicles if I don't want them and just fix them up and sell them just like what, uh, Billy Jinks is doing up in, uh, Phoenix, you know, and I said, let me do it the, uh, legal way, which is open up a used car dealership. And, uh, unfortunately I'm having a hard time getting insurance. I've been, I believe I've been licensed for about two months now. I'm having a hard time getting, uh, insurance, business insurance.

Ken Lucci: 39:16

I was on with the president of one of the largest agencies today and, and I said, it's going to get worse in 25. Listen, he said, absolutely, absolutely. The reinsurance market is absolutely horrible. And he made a special point in saying the new new businesses trying to come in to have a serious problem with accredited a A rated insurance providers.

Jess Sandhu: 39:41

Which is what, yeah.

Ken Lucci: 39:42

and to your point back on the IO piece, I believe 2025 is going to be a difficult year for the one and two car operators. I

Jess Sandhu: 39:51

It is. I,

Ken Lucci: 39:52

going to be a rude awakening.

Jess Sandhu: 39:54

I, I just had an IO who bought a, I believe, a 24 Escalade, which I was like, why did you buy an Escalade? And his insurance came up to$16,000. Mm-hmm

James Blain: 40:06

this is something I talked about and Ken's talked about, it comes up a lot. it a purchase of he bought the Escalade cause that's what he needed? Or he bought the Escalade cause that's what the market demanded. Cause we see so many times they buy the Escalade out of vanity instead of business need.

Jess Sandhu: 40:23

it's a vanity.

Ken Lucci: 40:24

Yeah. I mean, look, I routinely talked to the chief operating officer of probably the largest network that has the highest highest touch clients in the entire country. And I said, What do you say to an affiliate that says I want to, I'm going to go out and I'm going to buy all escalades. He said, Ken, that's a part of my business. But the lion's share part of my business is An executive who wants to be seen as in a suburban, he does not want to be seen in that escalate. That's a huge mistake. That's a huge mistake.

Jess Sandhu: 40:57

The only people that ever ask for escalates are rappers. Musicians

James Blain: 41:02

want, they want the status. They want

Jess Sandhu: 41:03

yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's not who we do. I mean, I have one Escalade in my fleet. I have a 2019 Escalade with really low miles that we hardly use. And I just, because everything is, is a suburban and I just bought a brand new 24 expedition just to try it out because we got a super good deal. But besides that, I just don't see, I mean, most, I mean, I have the, the, uh, number four guy at Microsoft just wrote last night and he wrote in a 2019 MKT and he had no problems.

Ken Lucci: 41:35

Right.

Jess Sandhu: 41:36

He had

Ken Lucci: 41:36

to us about the affiliate piece because you didn't have touch upon that. How much, how much work do you do on the affiliate side? And what kind of advice would you give an operator on growing his customer base?

Jess Sandhu: 41:50

I believe my affiliate piece is about 30 percent of all my airport rights are affiliates. 30 percent of my business, I would say 20, no I think it's less than that I believe. I think it's about 20%, so 20 percent of my business is affiliate business.

Ken Lucci: 42:05

But it's not with, it's, it's spread out among a

Jess Sandhu: 42:07

It's spread out with everybody. Like, you know, it could be the big three in Dallas. It could be the, you know, it, it's all across the board, you know, and the number one piece about that is GNAT. Of course, you know, I still have people that don't have GNAT, which is the stupidest thing, or I have people that, that, that don't want to, I have a, I have an affiliate in New York that it's on limo anywhere, just like me, and does not want to send a trip through LA net. And that's, they said.

James Blain: 42:34

reasoning or is that just stubbornness?

Jess Sandhu: 42:35

just stubbornness, they just, they just stubbornness and we all know who it is, and you know, everyone hearing this would probably know who it is, and they are like, well if things don't get updated. I'm like, how does things don't get updated? I mean that was one time, probably something happened in that one time, you know and it doesn't and and I explained to them, I said, once we hit dispatch and it's within two hours, yes things are not going to get updated and I have explained this to them but They just, and then, you know,

Ken Lucci: 43:03

But it's it's evolving the business that I don't understand the resistance to change. And if you were resistant to change, first of all, you'd still own taxis. Second of all, you might even still be in stretch limousines because there are guys holding onto that. There were people

Jess Sandhu: 43:22

Yeah.

Ken Lucci: 43:22

were, you know, your contemporaries. that didn't pivot and see what you saw. So, you know, one lesson is always be evolving your business,

Jess Sandhu: 43:34

It is, it is, it is, and, Yes, and, and I'm looking for more, you know, as I turn 48 next year, I'm looking for a business that is Monday to Friday. I'm trying to look for Monday to Friday business. I don't want the Saturday late night bar trips. I had one I believe yesterday one of my regular clients called me for a night on the town and I just said i'm sorry I said I don't do nine out of town and They want the vehicle till 5 00 a. m. And I say sorry that that that's a bit too short notice, you know, because it is what it is. I mean, as we get older and all that wiser and all that, you know, that stretch limo sits in that parking space for six to seven days in a row. Not, not generating any income. Yet the insurance on that thing is about 6, 000 a year at the very

Ken Lucci: 44:19

wait a minute, that's in your case. In

Jess Sandhu: 44:21

Yeah. in my case,

Ken Lucci: 44:22

it's 10 to it's 10 And when you try to get people to talk about asset utilization, well, you know, I, I use it for one client or I have it for this reason. They don't even cover their costs with it.

Jess Sandhu: 44:37

No, it doesn't.

Ken Lucci: 44:38

it's, it's crazy. And that's, you know, that's every piece of equipment. You've also got some of the highest utilization of your vehicles. You don't have a huge fleet sitting around. You have

Jess Sandhu: 44:49

No.

Ken Lucci: 44:49

utilization.

Jess Sandhu: 44:50

I do because I wrote, yeah, because it's all about rotation. If somebody wants a 28 passenger bus, let's say, yeah, so I can send a Gretch, I can send a Starcraft, I can send a Tiffany, I can send a Turtle Top. You know, client wants a 28 passenger, they don't, they don't care about, you know, Uh, about the brand. That's another thing I want to talk about is the brand. You know, there's a lot of affiliates. They want Gretsch, which is great because we do have them. We do have four Gretsches in our fleet, but a lot of the general public don't know what a Gretsch bus is.

Ken Lucci: 45:22

No,

Jess Sandhu: 45:23

They have no

James Blain: 45:24

the P the people riding on that bus, aren't going to have any

Jess Sandhu: 45:26

Yeah, and exactly. They just want you to come 15 minutes early. They want a well suited driver. They want a clean bus, and that's all. That's all they are looking for.

Ken Lucci: 45:36

And the people that turn over their motor, their minibuses every five or four to five years, they're crazy

Jess Sandhu: 45:42

They're crazy, yeah.

Ken Lucci: 45:44

know, and, and Harry's mantra is to make sure everything gets paid off fast.

Jess Sandhu: 45:49

Right, he

Ken Lucci: 45:50

That's how, that's where you make, make all your money is when you've got very, very low debt.

Jess Sandhu: 45:55

It is and both of my mechanics love me because I pay them right away. In fact, my, my school bus mechanic that I, that I go to a shop now, he loves us because here are truck drivers that are taking two months to pay and we pay at the end of the week.

Ken Lucci: 46:09

That's curious that you don't have an in house, you don't have a full staff of in house mechanics. You have good shop relationships because you pay your bills.

Jess Sandhu: 46:17

I actually do have one, uh, one guy. I wouldn't call him a mechanic mechanic, but you know, he does a lot of the simple things like, you know, checking the oil, uh, changing a tire or, uh, simple stuff like fixing things inside and all that. But if it's big, if it's a big job, for example, changing a water pump on a 6. 7 liter, I'll probably send it out.

James Blain: 46:38

I think kind of as we wrap this up, it's interesting because you, you've hit on probably some of the most fundamental things of running a business, you know, and I think in this, this one episode we covered so much, but I think the key things that you've really kind of pointed out are being able to pivot, right? Whether that's, whether that's. Moving across the, you know, literally moving across the world to start a new business or, or even within your own business, you've talked about the importance of taking care of your people and how important it is to understand, you know, the people in your organization. And even, even in the case of. You know, trying to be more effective with technology, treating those people that you have the best you can. And then now we've kind of come full circle in knowing the business, knowing what the market wants. So I think we're definitely going to have to have probably two or three more episodes to dive into those with you. Um, but I think in this episode, we've really kind of dived in as we kind of wrap it up. Let me ask you, as someone who's grown up in this, who's seen this, if you could share One last thing before we wrap this up with everybody listening right now, whether they're new, whether it'd been the industry, what's the most valuable thing that you would, you know, go back and tell yourself or that you'd tell to others that are in that same boat

Jess Sandhu: 47:48

I mean, I grew up in an era where we had the whoever had the biggest yellow page ad got the business. This was, you know, if you have a full size yellow page ad, you got the business. I think if I were to restart this business, I would probably say I would probably be a bus company.

James Blain: 48:04

just straight to the

Jess Sandhu: 48:05

straight to the buses. you know, and, uh, you know, it looks scary, but it wasn't, and, you know, and if that is the only thing I can tell my, my, uh, younger self, yes, limos were great. We had the nicest limo, the biggest limo, the six wheel limos, all that, but that's a fate. It only lasts for a couple of years, four years, five years, that's it. Now, nobody even asks us for limos. I mean, all the corporate, they just don't want a limo. They'd rather ride in a bus or a Sprinter shuttle. You know?

James Blain: 48:34

And, and I think that the best part of ending on that for me, right. And. started in the buses, you went to the taxis, you went through. And after all of that, after rebuilding the business, you're right back in bosses. So I think, I think for anyone listening, there's a ton of value there. Jess, I can't thank you enough on behalf of Ken, on behalf of myself, everybody for coming on. I, we miss having you around. We miss seeing you at all the shows. So hopefully we'll be able to have you back and hanging out more. I know you've been absolutely killing it, running the business and thanks again for coming on the show.

Jess Sandhu: 49:06

Thank you, James Cam.

James Blain: 49:07

right.

Ken Lucci: 49:08

and tell Harry I said hello.

Jess Sandhu: 49:10

I will.