James Blain: 0:26

Hello everybody. And welcome back to another episode of the ground transportation operator podcast. I'm super excited today. I have operational genius, friend, COO, right? Chief operating officer of motive, NLA secretary. I could list committees, but we won't have time to actually do the podcast. Um, Tiffany's involved in everything. I can't say enough great things. thanks for coming on the show, Tiffany. We're excited to have you.

Tiffany Hinton: 0:47

Oh, thank you guys so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

James Blain: 0:50

No, absolutely. So of course, as you already know, we love to start with how you got here. How did you get into the industry? Kind of what brought you to where you are today? So can you kind of tee us up here and let us know how you got to where you're at?

Ken Lucci: 1:03

Yeah, what's your back? What's your background before your crazy life in the chauffeured space to start there?

Tiffany Hinton: 1:08

So my crazy background is that I actually come from, um, the legal background. I started off as a paralegal, working in law firms in Los Angeles. And, um, I worked my way up through the ranks of that, to become an office manager. And then eventually what I started doing was helping young associate attorneys who decided to leave firms, start their own firms. So there's always these attorneys that get books of business as law firms grow and they feel like, hey, I don't want to split the money anymore. I'm going to go out on my own. And so I've always been great with building relationships. the first firm I worked out, which was an international firm. One of the attorneys came to me and he said, I'm going out on my own. And I think you have the relationships to help me build a firm want to give it a go. And he doubled my salary at that time. And I said, well, let's go see what we can do. So, I helped him start a firm here in Los Angeles. now a billion dollar firm, I believe. I think he's in the billions now,

James Blain: 2:00

you leave

Tiffany Hinton: 2:01

well, another one came and another one said, Hey, I got another adventure. And what I've learned about myself now is that I'm a builder. like the process of building. I love, I love watching something come to fruition. And once it's built, I'm kind of like, where's that next? challenge? What can I do

Ken Lucci: 2:17

your feet get stale. Once you've built it. You're like, okay now what? Yeah, I I can relate I can

James Blain: 2:23

the Classic integrator.

Tiffany Hinton: 2:24

Exactly. So that's what brought me here. I actually got into a bad relationship, had a whole bunch of debt. And a friend of mine came to me and said, Hey. I know you love business. You're great at making systems. I know this lady who has a transportation company at LAX. She just lost her business partner. She knows how to maintain the vehicles and how to work with the chauffeurs. She has no idea about the infrastructure. So can you go over there and see if you can help her out? See if you can just help her ease her mind a little bit, see what you can do. So I went and I told her, I said, I talked to her and I said, listen, this is an industry I know nothing about. But what I do know about a systems, I do know how to find out what doesn't work and fix it. So how about you let me work your overnight shift a couple of nights, because that's when you really find out when the shit hits the fan is late at night, right? When everything is, everything comes in the night.

Ken Lucci: 3:14

that's when the wheels fall off the bus when nobody's watching

Tiffany Hinton: 3:19

So I worked a couple of nights for her. The first night I worked for her, I basically revamped her whole dispatching. I came up with a plan. I was like, this is not effective. This would be way more effective. People understand it easier. You could plug people into it.

James Blain: 3:30

What was she doing? What did you have to

Tiffany Hinton: 3:32

Oh my goodness. She had like, because it was a shuttle system, so the, she had all these different accounts. So all the accounts required different stops in the airport. So some of them were you were going to parking lot. Some of them you have to go to every terminal. Some of them you were dropping off, airport employees, right? So she expected the dispatch was actually making hash marks in one place. Logging in another place, tracking, and I was like, ma'am, this is no, ma'am, no, ma'am. how about if we make each account its own setup, right? Each account is its own thing. And then we can also give your clients access to it. So now they can see it in real time and you can see it in real time and we can cut out all these conversations. Because we had walkie talkies and telephones and it was, it was from everywhere. It was, it was, it was

Ken Lucci: 4:16

operational chaos

Tiffany Hinton: 4:18

So I came in and I streamlined it. Right. And of course, when you streamline morale goes up to people start showing up to work, people start being more productive. You see a whole shift in the culture. And so that's basically what I did. I started setting up systems for her. Any place that I saw inefficiently, I created a system. And my goal was to create a system where I could leave it and walk away and she could plug and play other people into it, right? Because I only was trying to make enough money to pay off my debts so I could go back to my regular life.

James Blain: 4:47

you were building to get to the next thing you're building.

Tiffany Hinton: 4:49

Exactly. So that's how I got into that. So that was my first. I did my chosen transportation with that. And as she saw how instrumental I was on the operations side, she started asking me more to help her with the business building side. So with her relationships with her clients, with sales, with her relationship with LAX. And so I started getting more involved in that part and seeing that side of the business. And I was able to help her grow, over the course of 18 months, when I got there, she was running six shuttles in the airport and she had two hotel contracts and one parking contract. When I left 18 months later, she had 10 hotel contracts and six parking contracts. So we grew exponentially in that 18 month period, but it's really about relationships. It's about talking to people, finding out their pain points, and then making sure that you're delivering above their expectation. And I'm always the one to tell people, Hey, listen, give me a shot. Because once you have the experience, I guarantee you'll want it again. But let me give you the experience. Let me, let me, let's feel it. See how it feels. See if it feels good to you. So I left her and went back to my legal job, my good, vacation and my corner office. And, um, I got a phone call from a motive and they said, Hey, we hired this driver and we're in the same situation. We have 11 brand new Teslas. We have this great business plan, but none of us have any idea how, we going to execute this thing?

Ken Lucci: 6:15

how did they know you how did they find you?

Tiffany Hinton: 6:17

They found me because they hired a driver who used to work for me at the other company.

James Blain: 6:21

He saw what you could do and he took that. And did you know that motive was, you know, their whole thing was, they were electric. Did you kind of know the mission? Did you know what you're walking into? Or was it just another transportation business?

Tiffany Hinton: 6:32

I had zero idea. They called me and they said, we have this great new concept. This chauffeur that we hired said that you are the answer to problems. Can you come for an interview? And I said, okay, sure. I'll come. So I came and they told me, they're like, listen, we have 11 Teslas. Um, Morgan Freeman is our chief investor. He wants to leave an environmental mark. He thinks that his acting is not enough. He cares about the environment. He, he bought a bee farm and. He's doing, a lavender farm and he's trying to do all this stuff to help the environment and I was like, this is great, but this is how much it costs. I have a really great job and I have worked. I mean, you know, I'm a, I'm a single mom. I have four kids. I worked my way up. I came from the bottom. And so for me, it was like, listen, we got good medical finally. we are comfortable. You know what I mean? We're not, we're not struggling anymore. I don't know that I just want to get up and walk away from this. This is, I got, I finally, I'm, I'm on easy street a little bit.

Ken Lucci: 7:28

Because that was his motive at that time was a startup

Tiffany Hinton: 7:32

It was a startup.

Ken Lucci: 7:33

and startups, man, startups are just a different beast. They're a totally different animal.

Tiffany Hinton: 7:40

Yes. You have to wear every single hat. And I had been in that space from the legal perspective. I've been in that startup space before, but at least in the legal perspective, we were starting with a book of business. We knew that if we send people bills, they're going to send us money, right? This was from scratch. This is like, we got to build brand. We got to build clientele. We have to get conscious. Like it was nothing.

James Blain: 8:03

what role were they trying to bring you in as? I mean, was the, I mean, obviously you're chief operating officer now, but what was kind of the role that they saw you coming in to fill?

Tiffany Hinton: 8:11

They wanted me to come in and do operations.

James Blain: 8:14

Okay. So at least you're in the right, you were where you were comfortable, where you're familiar, they had the right seat on the bus for you.

Tiffany Hinton: 8:19

they did, but not the right check. So I told him, I said, I'm sorry, I can't do it. It's not enough money. They were like, we're a startup. We can't afford to pay you. And I was like, I understand this sounds exciting. I'm going to keep my eye on you guys. Good luck. two weeks later, they called me back and they said, is there anything? Is there any, I said, well, here's, I feel bad for you. So you can't find anybody. This is what I'll do. I'll work for you part time for six months. And during that six months, I'll come in at, you know, three days a week, and I'll put some systems in place. That should get you guys up and running

James Blain: 8:53

You're helping them get the foundation.

Tiffany Hinton: 8:55

exactly, and then you can hire someone you can't afford to execute those systems. Right? And that should give you guys what you need. And so, um, I did that for about 3 months and not quite at the 3 month mark. They offered me everything I had originally asked for plus a bonus and the rest is history. I'm here.

Ken Lucci: 9:15

Now, Tiffany, correct me if I'm wrong. The gentleman who, who started the company was a chauffeur for Mr. Freeman, or am I

Tiffany Hinton: 9:23

He is. He still is. So, Robert, I feel the current CEO was and is Morgan's security.

Ken Lucci: 9:29

So let's just, let's just tee this up. I mean, So you had a guy who was great chauffeur, right? He was a class a chauffeur. He, he just knew how to take care of the client, but, but, and had this great, the epitaph was the, the kernel of the idea was we're going to create an EV fleet. Okay. And that's how we're going to be different. But at the end of the day, you know, this is how most operators start. They're a chauffeur. They have a better, a good idea. You had a great benefactor, but now they need to bring in somebody to do operations. What would you say? What would you say that the most important things you did during that startup period from an operations perspective, what were the most critical things you put together?

Tiffany Hinton: 10:13

I would really honestly say it's the team, it was the team. Because, because it was a startup, you gotta have buy in. The people that work for you, they gotta believe in this thing. They gotta, they gotta eat it, they gotta breathe it, they have to know it the way you know it. And they have to, in a, in a sense, they have to kind of want it the way you want it. They have to, they have to think that it's something they can make work.

Ken Lucci: 10:36

They have to buy into the mission. They have to buy into the mission

James Blain: 10:39

100%.

Tiffany Hinton: 10:40

And so one of the, I think the biggest thing that I did that set us on a great trajectory was I spent a lot of time inundating my staff with the brand. And to the point that it was so ingrained that we would hear our story from people. And we'll be like, wow, how did you, where did, who, who, who the heck told you that story, but it became the staff's narrative, the staff, anybody that interacted with, they all had the same story and they connected with the story differently, but it was so ingrained in them. And I, I really feel that that's what did it for us is that they bought in, they bought in and anything that I went to them and said, listen, hey, this is what we're going to do. I need you to do it like this. They were invested in our success. And I think that that's what, I think that's what did it.

James Blain: 11:28

Well, and you, you said you had, when you got there, you said there was 11 Teslas. So is this, is this something where. Because they had Morgan Freeman's backing because of where they were starting, they were able to kind of start stronger. Or is this something where it had kind of been running for a while and now you're coming in when they're a little further down the road?

Tiffany Hinton: 11:46

No, when I got here, the only thing that had happened was they had been trained. So they knew how to operate the vehicles and they understood the functionality basically of the, of the Teslas. Because at that time, in 2016, this is a whole new thing.

James Blain: 11:59

Oh yeah. Brand new.

Ken Lucci: 12:01

Yeah.

Tiffany Hinton: 12:01

tech is brand new, right? CEO did an excellent job of teaching them to trust the tool. So they knew how far those cards could go. They knew how to use every gadget, who's it, what's it, widget. They knew everything, ins and outs of that card completely. And so that definitely gave them a leg up because they were confident. Right. And they have a great presentation because they had spent money, um, hiring us, a designer. They had custom suits, custom three piece suits that were custom tailored. And, you know, we had all the bells and whistles of what it should look like, but it was not, there was no brand. No one knew what motive was. No one had a clue what it was, what it was supposed to do or how it was going to work. And so that was really where, that was really where I came in. But no, they, they hadn't, all they had was training when I got here.

James Blain: 12:49

I respect that by the way, I have to put out there. If all you got is training, I'm with you. I mean, just absolutely. You, you've got the plan, you know where you're going, but you know, I think getting there once you've got it, once you've got the training, once you've got the confidence in it, you still got to figure out where you're going.

Ken Lucci: 13:04

Well, you could be all, you could be all dressed up with no place to go. So, tell me something. How, how important was the Superior Customer Service experience in the training when you started?

Tiffany Hinton: 13:17

Extremely important. And, and I mean, and I, and again, I credit that completely to Robert because Robert is a teamster. He's worked in the, he's worked in the movie industry his entire life since he was 19 years old. Um, I think he's now 52 or 53, so he's been in this industry forever. I don't want to tell his stories, but before he drove Morgan, he was Brad Pitt's driver. Morgan actually stole him from Brad Pitt. So,

Ken Lucci: 13:40

a leg, by the way, that's a leg up. That's a, that's a, that's a step up. There you go. Yeah.

Tiffany Hinton: 13:47

he had been, he had been driving you know, a list celebrities forever. And so he understood the nuance And that's what I think is so different about him is that he very much understands the nuances. we train our chauffeurs that they are concierge on wheels.

Ken Lucci: 14:02

100%.

Tiffany Hinton: 14:03

This is not about driving the car. This is about catching the things that everyone else is missing. That's what this is about. This is about those little pieces of conversation that you hear where you get to tell the client, you know what, we have enough time to stop at CVS and you'll still make your flight. Or I can pull over here and we can take care of that. Or if you need us to double back, we can. Or if you just give me a minute, I'll call my office and they'll have someone take care of that while we're in route and they'll meet us. It's making those adjustments in real time that set us apart and I credit Robert with that because he really understood how to get our staff to understand that nuance and really tap into it and really tune their ear and their behaviors toward those nuances.

Ken Lucci: 14:49

and, and this is, James, this is literally what Ritz Carlton teaches. Radar up, antenna up, radar on, right? And, and

James Blain: 14:59

anticipate their needs is, is the way we talk about it. You anticipate the need, right? One of the core things we teach,

Ken Lucci: 15:06

But, you know, Tiffany, you're, you're hitting upon something that what do you think? 7 limo operators don't get. You think I'm being too harsh?

Tiffany Hinton: 15:16

Wait, I'm 52. Absolutely.

James Blain: 15:18

don't, I agree. I mean, and Tiffany correct us for wrong, but, and I, and I've had the pleasure of getting to know Robert. And when I met Robert, it took me a while to find out Morgan Freeman is even involved because Robert's a very humble guy, but I will also share. We've been lucky enough to work with you guys for a number of years. Cause when Robert found out about us and we started talking about what we do and our goals, I mean. Kind of what motive was trying to do with that. And what Robert was trying to do, we've always been in alignment. We've always had those same core principles. And I would say seven out of 10, it might be eight out of 10. I mean, we're talking the top 10 percent of the

Ken Lucci: 15:51

yeah. And, and, and I think it's, I think it's, gotten, I think it's gotten progressively worse and I think it's gotten worse after the pandemic and we spent an episode talking about this, but your company is the epitome. Now, how many vehicles are you running today? Total, just roughly. So at the end of the day, you're five times larger than you were. And I make the case that yes, it was about the electrification, but it was also about, about pairing that with the, with the service experience, the superior service experience. And sadly, you know, when you look at the industry, most people. Taxis get us from point A to point B, right? Okay, well, I think, unfortunately, if you look at a meter, some operators in our business skew over there much more than they skew on the perfection of the customer experience. And they don't realize that when you do that. If you provide, I think providing a so so experience is worse than providing a bad experience, but when you hit it out of the park, when you hit it out of the park, because taking care of A list celebrities is all about anticipating their needs, being three steps ahead of what they need. If you see them fumbling in the back seat. Sir, may I get you something? Oh, I lost my pen. Boom. Okay. and it's all about the ultimate of the answer is yes. So if you had to fast forward, you started with electric, how much of electric if you had to say, look, you're obviously an extremely successful company in your market, how much would you say has to is because of electrification? Versus because of the brand you built and the experiences you deliver,

Tiffany Hinton: 17:39

That's a tough question. Can you start off easy?

Ken Lucci: 17:43

but do you think it's, um, do you, do you, do you think that it, do you think it's like, it's, do you think it's.

James Blain: 17:49

I can't, I would take this further. I would, I would say that the real question is if we took away all of your electric vehicles, and we went to all gas, Would you still be who you are

Tiffany Hinton: 17:58

Absolutely. We will still be who we are. Absolutely. We will still be who we are. And, and the reason that I'll explain that in the inverse kind of, because we have purchased two companies. Both of those companies were not electric. Obviously, they were combustible engine, right? when I came here, the focus that I had was we're not for everybody. I don't want to be for everybody. There's there's plenty of money out here. There's plenty of business. I don't want to build a company. That's for everybody. I want to build a very niche business. I want only the people who want what we want. Only the people whose values align with our values. That is our client. That is our avatar. That is our target. That's it Anybody outside of that? Anybody can have them. That's anybody's client. That's not my client

Ken Lucci: 18:44

so how big is EV to that avatar, to that client?

Tiffany Hinton: 18:49

So that client, it's about 75, I would say 75%. That's pretty much, that's what I'm, that's, I mean, obviously, anybody in the EV space knows we have to get in SUVs. They're not going to be electric until next year when I get a uh, IQ, um, Cadillac Escalade. but they're not going to be electric and they knew that, right? And they also know we're getting in the Sprinter. It's not going to be electric. Right. So that's why I say we have that, we have that little segment where they understand. I can't give you anything big in this space, but if you're going to get in a sedan, it's going to be electric. And I'm looking for the person who wants that, or I'm looking for the person who says they want that. That was an adjustment that I made along the way was that I found all these companies that were saying we have a commitment to sustainability. were sending out sustainable packaging. We're doing these things in our office, and then I would go to the meetings and I would say, well, I sat in the parking lot and I saw your CEO leave in as 550. that looks like it is not electric. I'm holding your feet to the fire of who you say you are. Like, are you really this or not? Right. But those were my clients. Those were my people. Those are the people I was looking for. And like I said, we ended up purchasing two companies that were not electric. They're fully converted now. They love them. They love electric and they sing the praises. The majority, there's always a couple who are like, uh, they're still iffy, but they haven't stopped booking, right? They haven't stopped booking. They're not asking for anything different. So that's what I'm, that's what we're hoping for.

James Blain: 20:17

Well, and it sounds like you guys have got something that we're seeing happen in the food industry, right? In the food industry, there was a big push for beyond meat. There was a big push for impossible burger. There was a big push towards, you know, plant based vegan. And it kind of led to the rise of the flexitarian, right? The people that, you know, I'm not giving up my steak. It's not happening, but you know, I'll opt to try and have a salad more. I'll opt to do that. It sounds like you ran into that a little bit.

Ken Lucci: 20:40

Well, you, you, you put it into your lifestyle and you make it a priority in your lifestyle. And I don't. Unfortunately, the, the, the vehicle industry, the manufacturing of automobiles is not up to where every, you can have EVs for everything, but it's interesting that it's so big a part of your brand. It's so big a part of your brand. so if you had to. Look, I know a lot of people, some people we've worked with, but a lot of operators raced out and they bought an EVs, three, and thought that there'd be a watershed of business basically coming to their door. What has been your success? Is it because of the amount of EVs and the emphasis you put on it? What's been the successive motive compared to others who've tried EV in the space.

Tiffany Hinton: 21:33

Well, you know what? I want to be, I'm gonna be completely honest and I'm sure James is going to love this. It's the training

James Blain: 21:40

Yes. Big win there.

Tiffany Hinton: 21:41

I have been in every market. I mean, I travel all the time. And usually people want to impress me, so if they have in their fleet, they're going to send an easy. And I can tell you, the drivers aren't trying, the drivers are not trying to optimize the usage of the vehicle. And as I tell anybody all the time, my favorite spiel is. Would you hire a carpenter or a plumber to work on your house who doesn't know how to use a hammer or a wrench or the tools that are required to do his job? You wouldn't. And I think that what our industry doesn't understand is that electrification is a change in paradigm. This is like going from the horse to the Ford Model T. This is not just a this is not just another car. This is a completely different animal and everyone in this industry refuses to pause and do the training that needs to happen in order for you to optimize the usage of this new tool.

Ken Lucci: 22:37

Give us some examples.

James Blain: 22:39

Amen.

Tiffany Hinton: 22:40

I'll give you an example. I'll give an example. I was in Fort Worth, Texas in the summer. I think it was June or July, and it was 102 degrees at 5 o'clock in the morning. I came outside to my car and it was a Cadillac Lyric and the driver had the vehicle turned off. So when I got into the car, it was already sweltering. He then turned on the air conditioning. I'm obviously giving the man grace. I'm like, let's let the air conditioner kick in. I'm not going to complain right off the bat. Let's see what happens. So it still was quite sweltering. So after a little, we got on the road and it was a little still hot. I said, do you mind turning up the air conditioning? The man said to me, This is an electric vehicle, ma'am. And I have two other runs after you. I need to conserve

James Blain: 23:23

Oh,

Ken Lucci: 23:23

Oh! Oh!

Tiffany Hinton: 23:27

I need to conserve the charge. I don't know if you understand, but everything is working off of the same electric charge. So if I turn off the air AC, it's going to run down the battery. In fact, he'd be interested in explaining to me. He obviously had no idea who I was, but

James Blain: 23:39

But that's not a you problem.

Tiffany Hinton: 23:41

no, it's a training problem.

James Blain: 23:42

Well, and no, but what I mean is, is as a customer, right? You know, it kind of goes back to, I mentioned flexitarians, I want to save the environment, but I don't want to suffer to do it. And even if I'm willing to do that. It's up to me to say, Hey, you can turn the AC down a little, right? Just because it's an electric vehicle does not justify that. I mean, it's one of those things where that also, it can be an operational problem. If he's worried about have enough range. Yeah, absolutely.

Tiffany Hinton: 24:11

the thing is, is if you're trying, so not to toot my own horn, our drivers are trained to maximize charge, which means that when he dropped me off at the airport, if he had 10 minutes, he should have stopped at the closest charger and he should have charged, but he should, obviously he should have turned air conditioning up, but this tells me that they don't have a good charging plan in place, or he's not aware of what the plan is. It also tells me that he does not know how to use the vehicle properly, because obviously you should have more than enough to run the air conditioning. The lyric has a good amount of mileage on it, but he's not comfortable with his tool. He doesn't feel empowered in that space.

Ken Lucci: 24:53

range anxiety. Range

Tiffany Hinton: 24:55

Everybody has it. Everybody. They have it bad,

James Blain: 24:58

And let, let me ask you something else. Cause one of the things, you know, one of the big deals for us is when we did the electric training, we spent a lot of time on the electric vehicle training, talking about plug in hybrids and hybrids and everything there. But one of the things that we found that was not just knowing your tool, but was the service was a lot of these guys were really struggling with the idea of one pedal driving and being smooth and understanding regenerative braking, because you're now getting in a luxury vehicle that has the power of a Corvette or a Ferrari, and you don't often touch the brakes. So let me ask you, is that something that you're seeing as well? Is it the driving styles being also

Tiffany Hinton: 25:35

Yeah, they're awful. That's another. Well, they asked me for, you guys asked me for an example. That's my favorite one, the air conditioner. But yes, they don't know how to use regenerative braking at all. They don't understand how regenerative braking works. But again, to me, that goes back to the training I teach my chauffeurs. this is your little home. This is, this is your, this is your space. You need to have command of this space. And if I'm a client, when I get in this car, you have my life in your hand. I need to believe that you know what you're doing and you feel good about it. And I think a lot of these people don't have that. And you're right. I have been car sick and so many, electric vehicles because people love to send them to me, I guess I'm supposed to be, I don't really care, but they send them to me and I'm like, this guy doesn't know. Actually, my son and I just traveled to Boston and someone sent us one. And the guy was just like, my son was like, mom. We're gonna have to get out. I'm gonna die because the guy was just like, and I mean, you know how Boston is. There's

James Blain: 26:30

Oh yeah, stop, go, stop, go.

Tiffany Hinton: 26:32

Oh, yeah. So, but one of the things we do in our training is our chauffeurs, they ride in the back. I want you to see how it feels. I take two of them at a time. Do you feel that? Is that pleasant? Is your stomach starting to get a little sick? You can just roll down the window because certain things you have to experience. I can tell you, but until you feel what it feels like, we're talking about just straight torque. That's all this is. This is torque. When you hit the gas, it's torque.

James Blain: 26:59

Ferrari level power. No joke. Ferrari level power.

Tiffany Hinton: 27:02

This is, this is it. And if you're not used to it, or if you don't think, I want you to be present in your thoughts that there's someone in the backseat and I want to make this as smooth for them as possible. I want to take every precaution. I want to make sure when I'm on the 405, I remember that the third lane has that big dip. And I take it easy because they're back there. And I think that you cannot depend on shots. You cannot depend on airbags. None of that's going to save you here. Right?

James Blain: 27:29

If we're using airbags, we got an even bigger training problem.

Ken Lucci: 27:32

you know, it, it, to me it speaks of a commitment, right? Because I think a lot of people in this industry buy an EV to check off a box, okay? And I don't think you're gonna make any impact at all in reference to utilizing this tool to increase customer utilization or increase your customer base without a commitment, right? I mean, the people that have two or three of them, visited a network, a client that's of mine and they had, it was a sedan. It, they got a great deal on them and they have five of them lined up. And I said, what did you, when did you get those lucid? Lucid, lucid. They said, we just got them. And none of the drivers want to take them home because they don't want to plug them in at their house. So, I mean, this is a company, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Why did you buy them? Oh, because we get a good deal on the lease. Okay, I mean, what's the plan? what's the plan? What's your plan and commitment? You know, is it me or does the industry just treat it like okay. Well, it's just another car. It's just another model I'm gonna buy one like it's when SUVs came out the big SUVs came out in 1999, I was used services back then But to me, that's the wrong approach. The approach is what is your program? But you guys started with the program. You started with the differentiation. so what would you say to an operator who's making a commitment? to be firmly in the EV space. first of all, do you have any suggestions as to what to stay away from for equipment? Or what are the first things that you should be doing? You've obviously were on the bleeding edge of this.

Tiffany Hinton: 29:21

I, I tell people first educate yourself. educate yourself and find out what aligns with your values. Whatever your company core values are, first look for the vehicle that aligns with those values. Because that's what is going to resonate with your clients. So if you have clients who are, you know, I'm a Californian. So everything is about names. We care about names and we care about what year and body style and all that stuff. So, to me right now, the best electric vehicle out right now is the BMW. BMW has the best product, in my opinion. Right? I love their product.

James Blain: 29:54

What wouldn't have expected

Tiffany Hinton: 29:55

And I'm a Tesla evangelist. Tesla has proclaimed me a Tesla evangelist that I go around teaching people to use Teslas. And I do love Tesla. I love it because it's tested. I've had it for eight years, right? I know what it's capable of. It's never let me down. know everything about it, but, BMW I think has created a product that is, there is a seamless move out of a combustible engine into a BMW.

James Blain: 30:19

It's a

Tiffany Hinton: 30:19

seamless. Yes, because it looks, it looks exactly like what you're used to. There's very little, there's no very little change. There's, there's only little subtle changes. And I think that for the senses, it's much easier for people to acclimate to that BMW than this, to any of the other electric offerings, because the other ones have gone so far techie. That people are like, Oh, my God, there's a lot of buttons in here. There's no dashboard. Where are things? I don't know what I'm doing. When you get in a BMW, it looks just like the other five series you saw. It looks just like the other seven series you saw. There's very little difference. And so I think that that is, I like that car for that reason. But to your question, I think that if beyond educating yourself, I think what these operators have to do is they have to figure out what is their why. Because if your why is not, authentic, right? If your, if your why is to check the box, it's going to be an epic fail. If your why is just because you want to tell people, I got one. It's not going to do what you want it to do. You need to make sure that this decision is rooted in an authentic place because it is a changing paradigm. It is a total different monster.

James Blain: 31:30

So let's let's address the elephant in the room then because we are getting ready to have a big political shift in our country And I have already heard people saying well the EV thing is over as soon as Biden's out no more EVs That's going away But I've also heard the other side of that of fortune five companies are not changing over what they're doing at a top level. So what's kind of your opinion? What does that future look like knowing that we're going into a political climate? That's not going to push for that as much.

Tiffany Hinton: 31:58

Well, like I've been telling everybody, all it looks like to me is higher prices. The tariffs on the part, the parts is going to get harder to get because the tariff is going to go crazy. The cars themselves, if they're not being fully built here in the United States, which most automakers now what they're doing is they're shipping the parts piece by piece, then putting it together in the United States and calling it American made,

Ken Lucci: 32:19

But most of the parts are from China.

Tiffany Hinton: 32:21

that's all of them basically. So I think that we're just going to see a rise in the price point, but The, the companies, no, I get more requests for sustainability. all of these major companies I deal with, a lot of luxury brands, Dior, Louis Vuitton. They run fully electric programs. They come to my city and they're like, Hey, listen, we're doing, a big photo shoot or we're doing a launch. It's over five days. I want 100 EVs. I want 75 EVs, right? some of my other big clients, they're like, Tiffany, we're having this, people come in to look at the company. We want everything EV. And so, no, I'm, I'm hearing more sustainability conversation, not less. I'm not, I'm not hearing any less

Ken Lucci: 33:05

Yes. well, to your point, Tiffany, you know, the subject EV is it's not singularly faceted. it's a, it's a complete new method of thinking and sustainability. And my feeling, my feeling is. The Fortune 500 companies and large public corporations have made the firm commitment they are going to, they're firmly in that direction. They're not going to change regardless of a tax credit.

James Blain: 33:34

Well, and

Tiffany Hinton: 33:34

I don't think so. I sit on panels. I sit on panels with, people from the airline industry, people from the hospitality industry, you know, from hotels, even from the rent a car space. Even though they have that, the, you know, they over judged what they were able to do when they went on a bottle of those EVs and they had to pull them back, even they're still not shying away from sustainability. They're just looking for a more sustainable plan to reimplement it, right? Because they found out like, okay, well, people are not going to go charge in places where they're not familiar with. So we're going to have to provide them with a map that tells them where they can charge. We're going to have to put more tools in place.

Ken Lucci: 34:11

just a it's a different. It's a difficult use case. Rental is probably the most difficult use case. You control the drivers. The drivers should understand after a period of time. And I was shocked by what happened with Hertz. You're talking about Hertz having to, they went huge. That was the president. I think they went huge, but in corporate America, sustainability is here to stay.

Tiffany Hinton: 34:35

Absolutely.

Ken Lucci: 34:36

100%. To me, it's literally like, okay, tell me what your insurance limits are. Okay, tell me what your background check policy is. Okay, tell me what your sustainability program is. And if you go, you're not gonna, you're not gonna land one of these companies. I don't think you can fake it. I think people out there, even some of the bigger operators are trying to fake it.

Tiffany Hinton: 34:59

They

James Blain: 34:59

And I think one of the things that we've hit on that's really important here, though, is I think, you know, kind of to your point, Tiffany, you figured out who your avatar is, what you're looking for, because you do have those CEOs that, you know, they want sustainability. But that's not, that's not goal one, right? So you're going to have clients where you might have higher level goals, but that's important to them. You might be in markets where maybe that's not a big deal. But I will tell you, I recently updated my Amazon app. And of course, like everybody else, you buy things off the Amazon. Now, even Amazon is trying to push shipping options based on lower carbon, right? Less boxes. I mean, sustainability is something that's, that's come. and I'd love to hear what your thoughts of what it looks like in this new administration, but it just doesn't look like at a corporate level, anyone's going to back off of that. So knowing that, what do you think we will see kind of as the changes? coming forward as the regime changes in the White House.

Ken Lucci: 35:58

regime is a good, that's a good way to

Tiffany Hinton: 35:59

That's a great game for it.

James Blain: 36:02

We're not political here, by the way.

Tiffany Hinton: 36:04

You know what I think is, I think it may become a little difficult. I think that, I think there may be some, some challenges placed in our way as far as what we're able to do and what's easily move forward. But I think that people as a whole, are, I think it's a, I think it's a groundswell movement of individuals and, um, you know, not to be political, but, you know, I think Obama said it best. It's what we do in our cities, in our town. Right. It's what we choose to do as individual citizens, right? That really move the country forward. And I think that that's what we're gonna see. We're gonna see that the country is already on that wave. We're already, we're already doing all this stuff, right? And so all he, all he can really do is put up a few roadblocks, but the people are gonna keep moving.

Ken Lucci: 36:53

And, and, and by the way, the people who are already in the movement to lessen carbon footprint and to be more sustainable are not worried about a 7, 500 tax credit on a car. they're worried about the whole, they're living their life based on a holistic program. Okay. It's like, you know, you have a heart attack or you understand your cholesterol is through the roof and you really could have a problem. Now you're changing your health regimen. These people have already changed their health regimen, whether or not they're going to get a tax credit or not. It's a different story now. You know, the billionaire bros may have some influence on, on the new regime about that 7, 500 tax credit. but, you know, you brought up Amazon, down in Florida, Amazon is all electric vehicles. Are they, are they electric out there for, for delivery, Tiffany?

Tiffany Hinton: 37:45

We have, we have some, I think we have too much land mass to be completely, but I hear there's more electric in San Francisco than we have in LA, but we definitely are seeing the, I mean, but you know, we have drones here that deliver your Amazon packages. So, you know, yeah, they're definitely

Ken Lucci: 38:00

We have drones in New Jersey too, but that's just not, that's not, it's not doing any deliveries.

James Blain: 38:05

It's a different, different animal,

Ken Lucci: 38:07

So, so you, you know, you hit upon something that I think we have to address is, is the potential for tariffs because look, by all accounts, 2025 is going to be a good year for our industry. Fuel, fuel is coming down. interest rates are coming down. Everybody watch your insurance. but the wild card is if the tariff situation we could become get in a tariff war, the retaliation is most likely going to be on the auto parts.

Tiffany Hinton: 38:39

Yeah,

Ken Lucci: 38:40

agree with you that it's, you know, people have to realize and do whatever they. Have to do that. Do you stockpile, do you stockpile anything or you, but you have, you, but you have really good relationships with your Tesla providers, with the

Tiffany Hinton: 38:53

I have a great, I have a great relationship with Tesla and I also have a great relationship with Tesla authorized people. So I make sure that I kind of cover my bases on all points. If Tesla can't help me, I can usually find an authorized dealer who has something laying around and people are used to. I mean, you run 52 cars. They kind of know she might need 1 of these. She might be where it goes. So we would get her 1. We'll get her 2 case. She has to come back. So.

Ken Lucci: 39:18

we want to hit upon one final subject that we could do a full hour on is the autonomous vehicle, disruption, if you will, or the trends that are coming, what, what is your opinion on how they will disrupt the chauffeur space?

Tiffany Hinton: 39:35

Well, I don't think there's going to be as much disruption as people think. Unfortunately, I think that, um, I think the biggest disruption that people have experienced already happened. It's uber, right? the autonomous car as more disruptive to uber than it will be to chauffeur.

James Blain: 39:52

Why? But, but why though?

Tiffany Hinton: 39:54

Because because when, if you are doing chauffeur space correctly, it's the personal touch that makes it special. If we take out the pricing. Then you lose the special sex, right? And I'm, I'm

Ken Lucci: 40:07

restaurant.

Tiffany Hinton: 40:08

Right. I've ridden in Waymo. I think Waymo is great. I will not lie to you. It was a, the ride was amazing. It was smooth. It was very humanistic. Like the, even the adjustments that the autonomous car made, it felt like a human was driving. They weren't like, you know, uh, stiff. the automation inside the vehicle, if you're a tech person, you love the tech. It's very, you know, to be welcomed by the car, to be able to start your own ride, you feel very welcome. Right. Exactly. It's the greatest. They put your initials on the top of the car when you're approaching the vehicle. It's this great customized little thing, right? and it's cheap. The price point, incredible. Can't beat the price point. But, there's nothing that will ever replace, really truly replace humanity.

Ken Lucci: 40:53

No, they're, they're, not gonna, No, they're not gonna get your luggage. They're not gonna show up 15 minutes before. They're not, they're, they're not going to meet you, meet and greet inside. They're not gonna go to an F-B-O-I-I, I agree with you a thousand percent. I think that it is the death nail to the taxi industry, because I still have clients in the taxi space. I fight with them all day that, that your demographic is dying off the demographic of paying cash, no, no smartphone utilization, et cetera. And the funny thing to me on Waymo is the fact that Waymo has their own app and now they're making deals to be on Uber's app. I think Uber, I think Uber will be disrupted until the shift is permanent fully over to autonomous. I was in Phoenix the other day There are four or five hundred of them sitting around up there and the, but I took a couple of Ubers in them in addition to Waymo and they said we are seeing 40 percent drops in our airport pickups and about 60 percent drops in Scottsdale. So I agree with you

James Blain: 41:58

but that's there. If I remember right and, and Ken, correct me if I'm wrong. It's Sky Harbor. You had to actually, you couldn't just go to, it was easier to go down and grab an Uber. You had to go out to the, you had to actually go. Further to get the Waymo. Is that still the case where people are going all the way out to like the economy lot

Ken Lucci: 42:14

I did my way most and I did my way most in Scottsdale. I didn't do it at the sky at Sky Harbor, but I know a couple of people, the NLA had the board meeting out there. I know a couple of people did it from the airport. I don't know where they had met them. the,

Tiffany Hinton: 42:28

it was that hard.

James Blain: 42:29

no,

Ken Lucci: 42:30

thing, the interesting thing today is, um. A study just came out with the reinsurer UBS, if I'm correcting, if I'm, referring to it properly where the Waymo sponsored or assisted in the report and basically these Waymos are safer than, than a human driver. That's what the report came out and said. but so, you know, I think that if the only correction I'll make, or the only, the only thing where I think it could hurt our industry is if, if you literally are the, what I call the A and B provider, the provider that just takes you from A to B and you're not delivering a quality customer experience, I think you're in trouble. I think you're going to be diluted by Uber black and then. When autonomous hits you, you could be disrupted by autonomous, but at your level at the high touch client level. the top 5 percent level, I don't think it is, we're gonna see a disruption.

James Blain: 43:34

Well, and I want to take that a step further because I have something that keeps me awake at night and that's the, and Tiffany, hopefully, you

Ken Lucci: 43:42

Just, Just, just, just one thing? Hehehehehehe.

James Blain: 43:46

at night. Right. Okay, maybe it's a lot of things, but, you know, the thing that keeps me awake at night is one of the big things that we struggle with in our industry is teaching the chauffeur's discretion, when to be seen versus when to be heard versus when to have a conversation versus, you know, just being there to serve. And one of the questions that I struggle with is if that chauffeur isn't there driving, and that chauffeur is just sitting in that vehicle to serve that passenger. What does that do to discretion? How do they balance that? Or do we end up with a future where that chauffeur's meeting them before and after the trip at the end points? You know, if we fast forward this, you know, 10, 15, 20 years, what does our industry actually look like? I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Tiffany

Tiffany Hinton: 44:34

That I'm going to say that I'm kind of with you on that about, what keeps me up at night. It doesn't keep me up at night, but I definitely think that things change. Like, I said, things change, and I think that we have had, you know. All of the time of the world, there's, you know, there's been a technology shift. There's been when we went to factories, that was a shift. I think that we are in a time now where there is great amounts of shifting. And I think that in this next 10 to 15 years, we are going to see huge shifts because as vehicles change. So will their operators or lack thereof. And so will the location of those things. Like I'm one of those people who strongly believes that your expertise is still your expertise. At the end of the day, we can teach, AI to use our voice, right, to, to, to follow the pattern of what we normally do. What we can't teach it to do is to anticipate. We can't teach it to go off script. Humanity is the only thing that will ever be able to go off script, right? So somewhere in the background, whether we're looking at a screen to operate that Waymo or to give that that Waymo instruction or to give that vehicle instruction somewhere, there'll be a person. The question is, where will we be? Will we be sitting in that driver's seat still, or will we be in a different place? Right? And I think that the other thing is, is where do we want to be? I think one of the worst parts about this industry. Is we are so entrenched in where we've been, we don't often consider where we're going. And if you don't make a plan, if you don't have a plan, you plan to fail, you

Ken Lucci: 46:18

They played checkers They play checkers. They don't play chess.

Tiffany Hinton: 46:22

exactly. And I think that that's one of the things that the elements that we're missing in our conversation is we never talk about how we are in a place where we can help form the future. We can form what this looks like, but we've decided that we rather stand in the mud and try to keep this old thing going. This old thing is dying. You can't keep resuscitating. It's only going to jump up so many times. We need innovators in our industry to start looking towards the future. Where do we want to see ourselves? Who do we want to be? What role do we want to play in transportation in the future? And then we have to start making the inroad to that place.

James Blain: 47:01

so what's that first step? How do we get, you know, the first step of getting out of the mud is you got to be able to pull one foot out. If, if someone's listening to this and they're saying, Hey, you know, I, I got lots of years left or I don't plan to ever sell. Or I, you know, if you do plan to sell call Ken, by the way, but if you're going to be here for a while.

Ken Lucci: 47:19

you're realistic.

James Blain: 47:20

yeah, but, but how do you, you know, we, we, it's very hard to be at 60, 000 feet when we're used to being on the ground working in our businesses. How do we step away and pull that foot out of the mud and take that next step of having a voice in what that looks like or what that future is?

Tiffany Hinton: 47:41

Pay attention. I think that's the first thing. Pay attention. I mean, I, I, I'm obviously the, in LA and I, I sit in these meetings all the time and sometimes I wonder like, what planet are you people on? Like, are you, are you, are you in tune with what's happening in the world around you? Like pay attention, innovation is happening to you and around you all the time.

Ken Lucci: 48:02

Whether, whether you realize it or not, I mean, it's, you're a hundred percent right in the, and it's a truism that most real innovation happens from, it happens to an industry by outside forces. Okay. And you know, I think the, the technology piece I do believe is the first step. We're still depending on too many people to take the order and to manage the order and to dispatch the order. And at the end of the day, we all know the technology can do a better job at anticipating traffic patterns and, and no, you're not going to have enough time to do that. So I agree with you, but it's common regardless. And my biggest fear is, and I use this analogy the other day to someone who said, well, That's kind of scary. I said, you know, there's still a fantastic company that makes, horses and buggies. I just, I just bought a cannon, cannon wagon wheels from them because I'm building a seven, uh, an 18th century cannon. And there's a great, it's called, it's called, it's called Hanson, carriages, right? You know, at the end of the day, there's still companies that make buggy whips, but the industry's not growing. Okay. So when I look at the statistics on how the chauffeured space is growing at 2. 67, that's just keeping up. What are we doing to grow our market share? Because as we talked about at the DC show, airline travel, travel is growing by 5 percent a year. So we're not even half that. So what are we doing to capture the new flyers? What are we doing to capture the younger people whose travel is a massive priority in their life is to travel. I mean, my business partner is getting married in Italy. Okay, because he, that's, it's a big experiential. So, you know, I agree with Tiffany, we, we have to get our heads up and look at where we're going.

Tiffany Hinton: 50:05

And, one of the reasons why we're failing miserably in the market with the younger people, which is the major bulk of the market, is that we want to adjust from a technological, from a technology standpoint. We refuse to adjust. These people want instantaneous answers. They do not want to call anybody. They, they want an app that they can depend on. They want it to be cost effective. They want to share it with their friends. The fact that we are still using outdated technology to even dispatch. The fact that we, I mean, no, no, no dig on add ons, but the fact that we even call it a add on,

Ken Lucci: 50:40

Right.

Tiffany Hinton: 50:41

Right. is, is indicative of how far we are behind. Oh, 40, 40,

James Blain: 50:46

Well, and, and I'm almost 40, right? I'm not, I'm no young, but I'm almost 40 and that's what I want. I don't want it that hard.

Ken Lucci: 50:53

to say 35.

James Blain: 50:54

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Ken Lucci: 50:56

Tiff, Tiff, Tiff, Tiff is not going to see her 40th birthday for 7, 8,

James Blain: 51:00

no.

Ken Lucci: 51:00

12

Tiffany Hinton: 51:01

know what? Listen, you just became my favorite person on earth. Okay. I want you to know I'm at 49 in like 10 days,

James Blain: 51:08

Oh, don't tell, yeah, yeah.

Ken Lucci: 51:10

you, wear it well.

James Blain: 51:11

thought you were younger than I was.

Ken Lucci: 51:13

Are you sure? Are you sure you're in the chauffeured business? Amen. you, you, you hit, you, you hit upon something that I have to deal with when I go to New York and I do what I call private equity speed dating, where I will stand up at lunch and I will talk about the chauffeured space and talk about the growth in the market for travelers and talk about the growth in airline passengers. And they all do this. They stand up. And they waved their smartphones at me and it drives me crazy because I know what it is. It's an antiquated customer service experience. Okay. And to your point, the other thing that we need to realize Is all our friends in the corporations that we have relationships with that are running corporate travel departments or our executive assistants that they're being replaced by kids that do everything on smartphones

Tiffany Hinton: 52:04

everything,

Ken Lucci: 52:05

and the in my, you know, humble opinion, and I think you'll agree the future of market share growth in chauffeur transportation is, the app experience is. A customer, corporate portal where you literally listen, especially with some things that have been going on, where you can track your executives, track your employees, where they're traveling to. And tell me on your end, Tiffany, do you see interface between the enterprise software and the actual vehicle?

Tiffany Hinton: 52:37

with the Tesla, I can't

Ken Lucci: 52:40

do you think you'll ever have a dispatch department screen that's, that, will recognize and interface with the chauffeur saying, do you realize that you've only got 71 miles yet left, or do you realize you've got something going on in the car? Do you think

Tiffany Hinton: 52:54

So,

Ken Lucci: 52:54

be that level of diagnostics?

Tiffany Hinton: 52:56

so I would tell you, I absolutely do. And I'm gonna tell you why. So, I have participated in, now three different, studies with three different automakers, where they are, in development of such software, where they're, trying to basically centralize everything that happens with this, with this vehicle. So, they want, when you go and buy this vehicle, they want to be the provider of the charge. They want to be the provider of the maintenance. They want to be the provider of real time diagnostic. They want to be for everything. They're trying to bring it all under one roof so that you essentially become a part of a family of vehicles that are all in this same ecosystem. And so I can assure you that they are working very hard to make that a thing. And yes, I believe we will see it. Probably sooner. probably sooner than what people, people believe. I mean, I think it's unfortunate that like I said, there are so many people. I mean, you saw I was in the state of industry panel this year and they were just like, I don't think it's going to happen. Like she says, it's not. I can assure you that I sit in circles at tables with people who are making sure that it is going to happen.

Ken Lucci: 54:06

And you know something, to your point, every single day I get downloads from Factiva on autonomous vehicles, on AI, on dispatching. And at the end of the day, I think the biggest problem is what you've got is people that are working in their businesses and not on what, what is taking place around them. And it's, kind of sad. It's kind of difficult for me because, you know, they, they have certain expectations of what their businesses are worth when they go to sell them. But I'm saying, do you realize that you're spending 6 percent of your total income on ordering in logistics? Do you realize that you, you've got more dispatchers than You know, practically Logan Airport. I mean, you've got that many people dispatching and your per transaction costs are 14. So. There's no question that I think it's all tied together. I think the EV, I think the EV evolution and the, the carbon footprint and the commitment to being carbon neutral, it's all driven by data. It's all driven by data. And I do think AI is going to make a big difference to us. I'm waiting to see in use. How it's going to change the model so that, you know, tell me something. Why is it that I can, from my prescription from CVS, I call in and I give a prescription number and they repeat back to me what it is and tell me it'll be available tomorrow morning at nine o'clock. And then they remind me at nine o'clock in the morning, why can't I say to any reservation system, this is Ken Lucci, pick me up at my house tomorrow morning at seven o'clock, take me to Salisbury, Maryland airport. American Airlines flight 1067 leaving at seven o'clock. Repeat. Jesus. I mean, you see, it's maddening to me. And then I'll, I'll, I'll talk to the reservations software people and say, well, it's coming. And there's an ad. There's a, there's a service that does that, that we're looking at it, or it's on the framework. It's on the roadmap. And they said, well, you know, nobody's using our, our existing app can. And I'm like, you don't even have an existing app. What you have is a mobile website. You're not in the app store.

Tiffany Hinton: 56:19

No.

James Blain: 56:20

I'm going to, give a shout out to the Dozier brothers out at Signature and to QuoteBot because, you know, one of the big things there is one of the people that I think, you know, and for me, this is not if, right, it's when. If you believe this is still if and not when, right? It's when and exactly what. And the reason I want to bring those guys up and give that shout out is they have been able to leverage that to where, although you can't quite, and maybe they've, they've got it cracked now. I haven't talked to him in a while, but although you can't quite call in and do that, they were working on the technology to where you could be messaging, send your message in and say, Hey, I'm going into Logan airport. I'm coming in at this time. Okay. And it would translate that to reservation. So I think, I think we do have kind of like Tiffany said, we have people that are watching. We have people are looking, but I think Ken in your world, in my world. I, you know, we said earlier you had maybe the 10 percent that we're doing stuff, right? I think it's maybe 1 percent that are trying to live in that world. And that's why we just don't see that much of it.

Ken Lucci: 57:21

that's a good point. But see, the beauty is, is when you, so goes California, so goes the rest of the country, as far as I'm concerned. Some people are think it's foolish enough to think it happens in New York as well. I don't believe that. I believe that all the tech And all of the, the trends, both on technology, culture, et cetera, start in California and they move, they move forward, they move, they move each. The question is at, at what pace? but so if you had to, prognosticate, where do you want motive to be in five years? Where do you see motive?

Tiffany Hinton: 57:57

Oh, that's a good. I want Motive to become an electric fleet manager. I would like to see Motive manage electric fleets. I think that we have built the infrastructure and the know how to become an expert in that space. And so that is where my thinking is, is that there are, you know, corporations, there are other transportation companies, and they want to be in the fleet space from an electric perspective. I think that's where our expertise is. I think that's I think that's our next step. don't know if it will become our overarching thing, 1 of the longer arms as time as time goes on.

Ken Lucci: 58:34

Very good.

Tiffany Hinton: 58:36

I told you, if you don't have a plan, then you plan to fail.

Ken Lucci: 58:39

Well, you know, we, we, we covered a lot today. First of all, you built a company based on differentiation and innovation. Okay. But you designed the brand and you designed the, the value proposition. You didn't let it evolve on its own. So that to me is number one is you designed the brand to tailor towards and to target the, the avatars, the customer pro forma or persona that you wanted, and then you built, you built all the systems around it. So every operator out there. You know, I think if you're an also ran operator where you're not on Google page one, you don't have a website and you don't have any value proposition. If your only differentiator is price. I think you're in trouble if you cannot articulate and tell me in a 30 second elevator pitch, what does my brand stand for? How am I different? And I think that's why people have gravitated to you. I mean, there's other people that have bought 10 EVs and failed miserably. Okay. But, but look at what you've done. You're five times the size and, but it's, you've built your brand and that's an integral part of your culture. Is the ev and it's the, it's to be sustainable, but you've translated it that to the service experience with with your chauffeur. and I feel bad for people that think the answer is$118,000 Escalade. Oh, I've got this$118,000 Escalade. I'm now gonna take a lot of business from people who have a$68,000 Suburban. It's not about that.

James Blain: 1:00:20

Buy the right vehicle. We talk about it all the time, Ken. If we could beat it into people, we would. Buy the vehicle you need, not the one you think you need.

Ken Lucci: 1:00:28

Well, and matching, matching your brand persona, matching your brand value proposition to the client that you want to attract. I mean, that's to me more than anything. Fundamentally, that's what motive did that from the, from the get go. It wasn't just about, Hey, I'm going to have EVs look at me. It was, they built that into their entire culture.

Tiffany Hinton: 1:00:49

Exactly. That's who we are. That's our, that's our life's blood.

Ken Lucci: 1:00:53

Well, listen, we've, we've only spent little bit of time together, but I got to tell you, you are one of the shining stars of the industry. You're one of the shining, you're one of the shining up and comers in the industry. So we're so happy that you decided to, uh, visit our little podcast. So,

Tiffany Hinton: 1:01:10

happy you invited me.

Ken Lucci: 1:01:11

so if, people wanted to visit motive, just to see what you're all about, what's the website?

Tiffany Hinton: 1:01:17

Motive. com

Ken Lucci: 1:01:18

M O T I V.

Tiffany Hinton: 1:01:20

M O T E V

Ken Lucci: 1:01:21

Sorry. I apologize. M O

Tiffany Hinton: 1:01:23

E V.

James Blain: 1:01:24

just wanted to make you say EV one more time. We

Tiffany Hinton: 1:01:27

V

James Blain: 1:01:27

how to spell it.

Ken Lucci: 1:01:28

There you go. Good.

Tiffany Hinton: 1:01:30

You guys are great. Thank you so, so much. I had a blast on here. You guys are doing great work, both of you. Uh, it blows my mind every time I talk to him. It takes me like two or three days to even figure out what he just finished explaining. So,

Ken Lucci: 1:01:45

well, this is, um, this is going to air before the show for driven show, I'm hoping to see you out in Vegas and continued success in 2025. Let's not worry about those tariffs or anything like that. Just keep building the business.

James Blain: 1:02:00

Amen.

Tiffany Hinton: 1:02:00

so much. I appreciate you guys. It was great.

1:02:04

Thank you for listening to the ground transportation podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe to the show on apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information about PAX training and to contact James, go to PAX training.com. And for more information about driving transactions and to contact Ken, Go to driving transactions.com. We'll see you next time on the ground transportation podcast.