Ken Lucci: 0:23

Well welcome audience to another exciting episode of the Ground Transportation Podcast, and we are blessed to have the, again, to have the, uh, president of the NLA, um, with us. And we're going to do, today, we're gonna talk about kind of a, a retrospective or a, a debrief on the Vegas show, but then we're gonna also talk about the importance on attending the day on the Hill. So, uh, Brett, I've gotta tell you from my perspective this. The, the show in Vegas was absolutely, the tone was terrific. Everybody was in a great mood. It was literally like drinking from a fire hose because there was so much activity on the show floor. But as NLA president, I'm going to tell you the, that. The presentation you gave as far as at the annual meeting was incredible. So give us your perspective as you walked around. What did you feel about the show this year in Vegas?

Brett Barenholtz: 1:22

I personally loved it and I just want to give a shout out to the show committee

Ken Lucci: 1:28

Oh God.

Brett Barenholtz: 1:28

that put it together. And, uh, we partnered with C. D. and Chris Weiss and Eric and Jess and their team and, you know, Kyle, Sarah and our team, but, you know, the show committee that we have is spectacular. They meet weekly. They take everything to heart, everything about the education. They do deep dives. They try to be very fair when it comes to, is this good for a small operator? Is this good for a big operator? But the tone was great. Everybody was encouraged. I think the industry is doing well right now. We're looking at hopefully not, um, a recession, but we're looking at record business travel this coming year, which is what has been predicted by GBTA. But the show as a whole was great. I spoke to a lot of the vendors Tuesday night when they were packing up and they said they did very well. People are trying to buy more technology now, they're trying to buy newer vehicles. And it was, it was a home run. It was a home run and everyone enjoyed themselves. We had at the NLA meeting, we had a very, we had this, uh, this pack fundraiser that, uh, Robert and I did with the help of the rest of the board. And we raised more money than we ever have in, You know, three years combined in five minutes.

James Blain: 3:00

You guys are amazing auctioneers, by the way.

Brett Barenholtz: 3:02

well, I give credit to the membership. The membership, they're all in. They get it. They see what we're doing. They see, you know, congestion pricing was a huge issue for the last year or two. And it's going by the wayside right now. Um, 179 they were getting rid of the 179 tax depreciation

Ken Lucci: 3:24

depreciation.

Brett Barenholtz: 3:25

where you could write off up to a million a year. Now it's like 1. 2 million a year that is now permanent in the tax records, which it was, it would go away every year. They'd have to bring it back. You know, we're going to talk a little later about some things we're lobbying for. The fortunate thing is right now we don't have any. Huge thing hanging over our head like COVID just hit or, um, the TNCs just came in, you know, illegally or this or that. So it's, we're, we're in a good time now, but I just give all the credit to the great show to our board. And what they do and the time they put in. And we have 18 people on that board that just kick butt and great. And they run, we have 17 committees and they, they go hard and we. We try to give back to, and there's, we had a lot of scholarship winners. Again, we keep giving out scholarships to the shows and, and it's very thought out and thorough and, uh, and I'm really proud to just be part of it.

Ken Lucci: 4:35

So without mentioning any names, I had a huge client come in that has never been in the industry before. And he made an acquisition in this space. And I said, look, you've got to come to the conference. Okay. So this is a gentleman that has literally been in Many, many, many different industries in his career and his comment to me after going to the show, we did a debrief was you guys are incredibly professional, the team that runs the NLA or runs the show to me, it, it, it would, it rivals an industry, a hundred times your size. And he did, I will tell you, he flat out said when he met you that. He got a, uh, a great feeling about the industry and why the industry is as strong as it is, is it because people there's leadership in the industry like you. So I wanted you to know that, but he was extremely impressed with the show floor and, and the, And the amount of vendors and the amount of activity and the energy level. This is someone who never stepped into one of our conferences before. And his only reference to this industry. I joke with him all the time is the only thing you know about this industry sitting in the backseat and sit in the backseat of the car. So, you know, when you think about how far this industry has come. Right. He sat in on the, um, the state of the industry or the annual, the annual NLA meeting. They sat in on a couple of education sessions and they were blown away.

Brett Barenholtz: 6:10

You know, well, like I said before, the credit goes to. The committee that is putting this on and there's so many brilliant people that they're not even on the board, but they're on that committee and I'm blown away because I try to sit in on all of their calls, even though I miss them. But they're weekly. I learned stuff every day. Just listening to them. If you're a sponge in this industry, you're going to do Well, It doesn't matter how long you've been in it. It doesn't matter if you're like, even at a first timers event, it You're going to learn something or you're going to meet someone that's going to help you. I, I was recently, I met someone at the show there. And the person had a badge that said Telluride. Nobody knows about Telluride. I go there every year. It's in Colorado. And when I was in Telluride, I actually met him and we boarded for a little bit. And boy, is he a good boarder.

Ken Lucci: 7:06

No kidding.

Brett Barenholtz: 7:06

about 30 years younger than me. But he's just getting in the industry and we were just chatting and talking shop the whole time. But this is what happens in our industry. It's very different. I thought when I first got into this, it's cutthroat. The guy next to me, let's take his legs out. Let's, you know, grab all his

Ken Lucci: 7:27

well that's cause you come from the taxi business. Let's

Brett Barenholtz: 7:30

Yeah, well, yes. Um, but it's, it's a wonderful industry where people, I don't need to own metal all over the world. I just need to know the right people all over the world. And, and not only do you need to know them all over the world, you need to know them in your market because we got so much smarter during COVID we thought we were smart pre COVID and then we realized we carry too much metal. We have too much insurance. We have too much this. And just, have the right partnerships

Ken Lucci: 8:01

Look, and the opposite side of the coin is when you're an ostrich, And you say, I've been doing this for 30 years. I don't know a deed to go to those shows. And I'm, that's literally an imitation of many of the people I talked to whose businesses are not successful. Oh, I've been on this for 30 years. I haven't been to a show in 10 years. That's why you're not profitable. That's why your mindset is back in the stone age that somebody said to me the other day. There's two types of people in this industry. There's people that express that understand the ecosystem and a part of the ecosystem. And then there's the knuckle dragger Neanderthals that think they know everything. And I said that he didn't say that. So the reality is these shows are not a cost. They're an investment. Right to me. They're an investment if you can't walk away with a golden nugget from one of these conferences You're you're there you're sitting at the bar if you can't if you can't create a relationship Okay like that I guarantee you that guy tell you ride with you which felt like he was boarding with a celebrity Because he's the i'm dealing with a guy who's got one of the most successful guys in the industry and he's showing me some attention but if That's what I don't understand about this industry. It seems to be like the two types of people. I'm not going to belong to my state associations. I'm not going to, I'm not going to participate there and I'm not going to participate in the national association. I'm not going to go to the conferences cause I know everything. And from where I sit, they all have the same things in common. They haven't grown their businesses at all in the past 10 years there. And their financial metrics are worse today than pre COVID. Because what got us through COVID was the camaraderie of remember those damn zoom calls of all of us saying, we need to roll up our sleeves and get through this together. The 40 percent that didn't make it through those were the ostriches. But we still have ostriches in the industry that don't go to these conferences and don't participate. And it was interesting to me about that, the comment of the guy that would never was in the industry before. So to me, it renewed why the, the, the, the ecosystem participating in the ecosystem, that is the NLA, that is the state associations, that is the national conferences and the other events is absolutely critical, but, and, but I got to tell you, and this is not kissing up. Great presidency. I mean, the great

Brett Barenholtz: 10:31

thank you. You're, you're trying to make me blush here. Uh,

Ken Lucci: 10:34

well, maybe you, you have quite a, we won't talk about the

Brett Barenholtz: 10:37

I, uh, I wanted, I wanted to make the, uh, the annual meeting a little fun. So I, uh. I wasn't sure if I would bomb, which fortunately I didn't, but, um, it's, uh, I, everybody was really engaged and it just shows how much the people in the industry care about it. And I'm shocked that you said 40 percent of the companies are gone. I thought it was more like 20

Ken Lucci: 11:04

it's, it's 40%. When we did the state, when we did the financial state of the industry reports, the D and B numbers are incredible. Yeah. And the reality is 16 percent of the companies that are below a million, 16 percent fail every single year. So what you've got is if you come into the business, you don't 16 percent a year. So 80 percent fail within five years. And my feeling on that is because you don't, you don't educate yourself and you don't create those relationships where if the vehicle is sitting idle, right? Cause you're again, you're an ostrich. Um, you don't have a guy like Brett that's going to send you business. So you have not networked at an industry event. And, um, I just, I don't know too many industries that have the ecosystem that is dependent, that we are all dependent on the work. Um, that we do to, to participate in the ecosystem and the ones that don't don't seem to be doing well.

Brett Barenholtz: 12:05

well. Kenny, it's even learning about the ecosystem. If you're a million dollar company just getting started, a lot of people don't know that you should network with outside. You're driving back and forth to the airport every day, all the time. And you don't realize that, hey, maybe when the guy lands in New York or Miami or LA. We can help them there. Your margins are almost as good or better on the farm out work than your work where you have to, you know, pay W2 employees and, and workman's comp and all of it, your insurance and all that. It's, uh, it's quite an industry that there's always something to learn and. I am not someone that is, the best thing I think I know about myself is what I'm good at and what I'm not good at. I don't know our systems well, I don't know technology well, and, but my business partner does.

Ken Lucci: 13:02

That's why you've got Kevin Cronin.

Brett Barenholtz: 13:04

yes, and Kevin's great. And when it comes to vehicles, Kevin in his suit jumps under them and starts looking at things. And, and, uh, when it comes to our tech, um, you know, we just added something recently. It is like a bot on our website.

James Blain: 13:24

Is that the quote

Brett Barenholtz: 13:24

it was very cool. It, and you know, I think it's amazing. And we're probably one of the last companies that had remote employees. We're probably one of the last companies that. Does stuff overseas, but it's, it's very mainstream now for that to happen. And there's a lot of companies now that not only are their call centers overseas, their dispatch, their billing, there's a lot of things going on in the industry that if you don't go to these shows, you're just. You don't know about it and I, I will, I would like to shout out one thing. There is someone that is building a couple of 20 groups now. Um, and if they want the name, I'm not going to say it on the podcast, but they can reach out to me and I'd be happy to send them the information. And it's just something, if you're not part of a local association or you're not part of different, um, committees that help the national association. You should join a 20 group. You, you will have friends around the country. You will make, you will have relationships

Ken Lucci: 14:29

you can mention his name. That's the kid. That's the brother of the kid that owns. They're all kids to

Brett Barenholtz: 14:34

in San Diego.

Ken Lucci: 14:35

Yeah. What's a, uh, a men in black is all right. He's the bro. He's his brother. Smart

Brett Barenholtz: 14:42

So the, the guys from men in black have this new business and I was highly encouraging him to, to do it. And I, you know. Kudos to them because it's, it's something that, uh, needs to be done. There, there were, there used to be many, many more 20 groups, you know, with Tom Mazza and, and other people and Arthur and people that did that. I know Becky has some stuff now, but it's, um, if you're not part of one, you should be part of one. It gives you this comfort zone. Where you can bounce things off of, uh, people that are normally your size companies and have the same thought process as you, but you're not alone and you learn that.

Ken Lucci: 15:28

Well, and that's what gets me. I, I can't keep going back to it. The, the most backwards people I deal with that come to me to buy it, to, to please help me sell my business. My accountant says it's worth X. They're the ones that literally don't participate with anyone else. The 20 groups. Cause when I started Tom Oz, I had Tom Oz as a consultant from the day I started my company in Tampa and he, he was an investment. He wasn't an expense and him bringing me into the 20 group was one of the best learning experiences I had because now I had brothers. That I could call or email and say, listen, I'm, I'm running into this issue. The myopic thought process of some operators makes them victims of their own circumstances. Um, the, the, I, I never get over it. It's, it's difficult as an entrepreneur to take advice anyway. Right. And I kind of upset my pigheadedness by reading, um, you know, and I'm reading some great, unbelievable books that will help my customers, but some entrepreneurs, you know, the feeling that you have to be omnipotent. I know everything is self defeating you know what you just said you know I know what I know and I know what I don't know what led you to one of the best yin and yang partnerships in the industry you and Kevin I don't know two people who could be more different right but other than your hairstyles that but it it. The two of you are a perfect, a perfect fit, but if you don't have people in a, in a 20 group that you, you don't, you know, you don't talk to them and you don't go to the state associations and you view all of those people as your competitors and you don't go to the NLA because you view it as an expense and a club. I don't, I don't know how you succeed in this business. I honestly think it cuts your chances of success. in half.

Brett Barenholtz: 17:28

I, I was laughing though when you mentioned that, uh, if you go to a show and all you do is sit at a bar and don't go to the educational sessions at our shows, if you just sit at the bar, you're going to have some Good networking there. It's, uh, you're, you're gonna, you're still gonna walk out of there with some really Good nuggets.

Ken Lucci: 17:49

Good point.

Brett Barenholtz: 17:49

it's a it's a great industry and, uh, the people are great and, you know, you work with, we, we always talk about this and I think I can say it on your podcast, but it's really the no asshole rule. So if you find good people, work with them. And if they're just too tough to work with, there's no one else that you can work with.

Ken Lucci: 18:11

don't. That's the beauty, right? That's the beauty. If you find someone who calls, you say, listen, I need help in Kansas City or I need help in Indianapolis. And you call somebody like, eh, I don't do farm out work. I don't do farm end work. There's, there's five people that will, right?

Brett Barenholtz: 18:28

Well, it's not even that can it's it's when you have an issue, everything's great when everything's perfect. But when there's an issue, can I talk to that owner? Or can I talk to that manager? Get this squared away right away, right away, figure out the billing piece of it, you know, work together and, uh, and just move forward. In a professional way, and that's how you keep your clients happy and that's and when you have people that they're so demanding on one side that one tiny thing, they're like, we're not paying, we're not this, we're not that you can't do that to the people that you work with and you have to be reasonable.

Ken Lucci: 19:10

Yep. And there has to be the only way to me that you develop a trust factor. You don't develop a trust factor, finding an affiliate on Facebook saying, Hey, I, I, I need help in Texas, in Dallas, Texas, tomorrow morning at five o'clock. Who do we have 5am? Who do we have to me? The trust level is look them in the eye and say, listen, you know, this is what I've got going on. Here's my cell number. Can I have yours? That trust factor is irreplaceable. And you do get that by participating in the industry.

James Blain: 19:38

it's an echo of what you said on the first episode you came on with us. And I don't know if you remember saying it, but when we were talking about the same topic on the very first episode you did with us, you said, the big thing is don't screw it up. It's not about rates. It's not about getting the best deal. I'm worried about who's going to be the best to work with, who's going to not to screw the trip up. And it's so great now to kind of see that echoed. And for those that haven't listened to that episode, they really should go back and listen to it. But you've echoed that and you've echoed the mentorship. They're just, they're the two big keys that seem to be part of your success.

Brett Barenholtz: 20:13

Well, people, people help me along the way we've made plenty of mistakes. But you have certain people are very generous with their time. They're very generous in helping you out. And the nice thing too, when you're in like a 20 group is they, they don't really feel that you're their competition locally either. So, but they still have the same insurance problems. They still have the same vehicle maintenance problems. They still

Ken Lucci: 20:42

issues.

Brett Barenholtz: 20:43

all of these Driver issues. Yeah. So it's, it's a good way to get rolling in the industry and I highly recommend it.

Ken Lucci: 20:53

No question about it because you're not alone. If you have to, if you have to bear the burden of being a business owner to begin with, it absolutely, which is stressful. I mean, I don't know too many business owners who are not three X the stress of an employee of some company. So if you bear that burden alone, I think you're, you're, you're short, you're shorting yourself. You're, you're limiting your success by doing that. Yeah.

Brett Barenholtz: 21:18

yeah, part of, part of the presentation that I did at the, uh, at the NLA meeting, there were a couple little videos, but one of them was. Of Dana White, and I'm not going to quote him perfectly or I'll be swearing a lot, but Dana White was saying in this clip, it was a 10 second clip, and he just said, everyone comes to him and they say, you know, I want to make my own hours. So I'm going to work for myself. And he's like, you don't get effing Christmas off. You don't get effing Easter off and everyone's trying to eff you. And, uh, and it just, it resonates with our industry because We're, we're 24 seven. We never close. We're, we're all in all the time and it is a crazy industry in that respect. But, um, you need to have good partnerships. You need to have good people at work.

Ken Lucci: 22:11

Right. And you, uh, so to me, 20 groups are a force multiplier and going to the shows and the conferences and leaving with people that you bond with, those are a force multiplier because it's pretty fricking lonely being a business owner. If you don't have people If you don't have people where you can say, listen, are you having the same issue? So let's segue into what I think is tremendous value and tremendously important in the space is the analyzed, um, day on the hill. So give, give us an idea. It's coming up. Um, give us an idea of what happens on the day of the hill and why you think operators should go. And now, basically, there is no cost to participate. Full disclosure, Driving Transactions is a sponsor and the podcast is a sponsor. But give us an idea of why day in the hill is important for an operator.

Brett Barenholtz: 23:47

Well, first of all, it exposes you to the entire NLA board. It exposes you to some of the biggest operators in the industry, and it is a very small group of people compared to what we're usually with. You know, almost 2, 000 at the fall show, 2, 500 at the show that we just had this past winter in Vegas, and even the retreats have a couple hundred people. This has about 60, 70, well, recently, maybe even close to 75, 80 people. And everybody is encouraged to meet each other, talk, you have some time. It's not like you're going from one thing to another to another. We all sit in the same room on Monday and we go through different issues that we're going to be speaking of. We try to educate people on that. We also bring in Cornerstone, which is our lobby firm in DC, which is one of the best in the country. And they will do some point counterpoints to different issues and we talk about the issues and years ago when I started running the legislative committee, I would meet with Louie Perry, who's from Cornerstone and say, Louie, please dummy it down for me. I used to go to these things, we would get a book this thick about this law that we're going to try to go in and talk to our representatives and senators and say, we don't, we don't want that. This passage of everything is broken down into like. a paragraph or two. This is what we don't like about 179. We don't want this to go away because we want this depreciation on a yearly basis. This helps all of the companies in our industry. And it is made in a simple form. So the following day we go to meetings and you go to meetings for the state where you live. So there are two senators in every state that you live. And a representative of where you live and where your business is. So fortunately for me, we have a business in Maine, and we have a business in Boston. We have our offices there. So I get to go to two states. So that's about four senators and three or four, um, different reps. And it's amazing walking through the halls of Congress and seeing, wow, this is really how stuff works here. It's you, whatever we do that day, it's not going to happen that night. We just have to continue to go year after year after year. So they know that we're around. There was an accident a few years ago in New York and one of the aides to one of the senators said, Hey, why don't we call those people from the NLA about this, that were in the office last year? And they did, and we helped craft the new laws about this type of stretch limousine. They wanted to have CDL drivers on everything from SUVs up after this accident from an operator that was actually operating illegally and not part of the NLA or anything like that. But you You can't make a friend when you need a friend in DC. You have to do it year after year after year. And we've had some, uh, very, very good people that are part of the NLA that know the DC. Lay out well, especially with Cornerstone helping us. And every year we have a fundraiser for a Democrat one year, a Republican the next year, and we just want to show that the NLA is a relevant industry that chauffeur transportation is a relevant industry that not only has us that are there lobbying, we have hundreds of employees. They have spouses, they have significant others, and we have mechanics and drivers and, you know, dispatchers. And one person going there that has a 50 car fleet might really represent 500 voters. You know, they have clients, they have vendors that we support. So there is this whole infrastructure of people, and a lot of the senators and representatives realize that, and they give us Some good time and a lot of times, you know, you, you don't get to see the senator or the rep, but you meet with their staffers who in most cases are more up to date on everything going on in their office than the senator themself, but occasionally you go in and you are there with the senators and the reps and we've had some great experiences. A couple of years ago. We. did a lunch and a fundraiser for Representative Gottheimer from New Jersey. He led the charge for the last two years against congestion pricing. He couldn't have been a better friend to us, but we were already talking with him before congestion pricing.

Ken Lucci: 29:16

Think about that example, okay? Think about that example. So if you don't have the day of the hill, The industry has absolutely no visibility to any of the legislators. What happens when they decide they want to implement the congestion pricing. You're not going to have time to create those relationships. He, that, that, that that's the perfect example of the benefit of having a legislative committee, the PAC fund, the lobbyist, and the day on the Hill. No question about it.

James Blain: 29:50

Well, and I,

Ken Lucci: 29:51

example.

James Blain: 29:52

I think it goes a little further than that because, you know, we've, we've talked about the 50 car company. We've talked about the larger company, but one of the big things that happens in business is if you get to that point where you get stuck. And that smaller mindset, you get stuck in that smaller business. So kind of to Brett's example earlier, where he was kind of mentoring that person in Telluride, this is that opportunity to start developing those friends, to understand kind of what, what they look at when the blinders come off. You know, if you're just getting in business, you've got two, three cars, you're worried about how am I getting my guys really need to go? How am I getting them trained? How am I getting things done? How am I not making mistakes? But now you can start to expand that vision and see those things. And the other side of it is one of the things that happens a lot is we get in this mindset of Oh, well, yeah, You know, I, I'm too busy. Someone will represent, someone will be there. Someone will voice that someone, someone will put that fire over there out. And I think a key thing here, and Brett's already alluded to it several times. If you don't go be the voice, if you don't go represent, if you're not there doing that, there's, you know, one person going in and talking to them has some, some pull to it. You get two, three, four people. Now they start seeing it as. We have this group in this area. We're representing these constituents. They're putting faces to the names, faces to the industry, and you start to open yourself up. You start to open that growth. So I think Brett, if you can talk for a second, what, what does that look like? If you're that smaller operator, obviously it's a free event, but if I'm a smaller operator outside of the networking, if I'm trying to. Kind of see further down the road. What is that? What is that opportunity?

Brett Barenholtz: 31:36

Well, it's funny because when you actually do reach the senators and the reps, they want to hear more from the smaller operator. These are the people that they might look at someone that's a 20 car and up operator. Oh, that guy has a medium sized company. You know, he might be telling that he's fine, but the majority Of our, uh, association is under 20 vehicles under 10 vehicles. And it's amazing when you see the reps and the senators talk to those people, cause they really want to know what's, what's ailing you. How can we help you? Is this going to help you being able to depreciate this asset? Is this going to help you, you know, is this going to hurt you? If there's congestion pricing, is this going to hurt you? If there's a accelerated depreciation and also one of the biggest things we're going to be talking about is insurance this year with them and tort reform.

James Blain: 32:36

You beat me to it. It's it's on everybody's

Brett Barenholtz: 32:39

Yeah. So that is, that is something and Ken who does all of these. transactions with driving transactions that alone is putting people out of business.

Ken Lucci: 32:50

It's the number one reason. Now it's the number one reason why people are getting out. I had an operator, it's a million and a half dollar operator, been in business for 20, 20 years, who this week called and said, I cannot make my deposit for the end of March. I cannot pay my insurance deposit. And I don't have the money, which is an underlying issue, right? We've got profitability problems, but he has no time to make it up. And he's, he's taken out a home equity line in order to pay his deposit. It went up 30, 38 percent in one year.

Brett Barenholtz: 33:24

and that's probably with No, accidents.

Ken Lucci: 33:26

No, it's he is, again, he claims his last runs are good. It, it, it blindsided him. Um, he was one of the, I would say he would be the, uh, on an ostrich that doesn't participate on the state associations. What are you doing at about it on the local level? And he just approached it like it was, Oh, you know, my insurance is coming new, you know, whatever. Um, and it's going to put them out of business unless he finds the money and he's got to tap into his home equity. To pay the deposit now, because that's the other thing that happened is insurance said, we're not going to do financing. You have to put at least this much down. And then you're going to an outside financial, a financing contract, which is eight, 18 to 20 percent interest. So think about what you just said to participate. You go into a legislator and say, look, If we don't do tort reform, I'm out of business. I won't, I can't keep my house. I can't keep my, I can't pay my, pay myself, pay my income to, to keep my house. It's, it's a big, it's a big deal. Um, so,

Brett Barenholtz: 34:32

well, and the other thing is, I think. D. C. The people that represent us in D. C. Realize that 60 percent of everybody works for a small business companies or something like that.

Ken Lucci: 34:46

under a million dollars, 60%, 60

Brett Barenholtz: 34:48

Yeah. So that that is a huge part of the constituency and never mind who is part of like Nila or local associations. Is 100 percent or 500 percent more people that are in your industry, and they're just not even part of anything. So, but they understand, you know, our issues and another thing that we're going to be discussing once again is curb space, which is very important, especially at

Ken Lucci: 35:23

airports. Yeah.

Brett Barenholtz: 35:24

airport. curb space because of the federal money that is given to every airport. We want to make sure that we have a voice in that and we don't get. You know, sent out to remote lots or things like that.

Ken Lucci: 35:38

Well, think about it. Uber's lobbying is probably You know, a thousand X, what we have as an industry,

Brett Barenholtz: 35:46

You could say a million X probably,

Ken Lucci: 35:49

by the right, right, It's like a huge line item on their P and L for when I read the analyst reports. But at the end of the day, when you walk into a Senator rep's office and you say, if, if I can't, if I don't have a place at the table, if I don't have a place at the curb, uh, I'm not going to be attractive. To clients.

James Blain: 36:10

it's it's so much deeper than that though, because if you think about it And you really go through it. Our clientele are the businessmen, the celebrities, the musicians, you know, when we're dealing with private airports, we're pulling right up to the aircraft. But why is it when I take the highest form of luxury transportation on a commercial flight? I've got to walk the furthest and be inconvenienced the most to use that. The curb space, right? It should be, hey, the Uber lots over there. You're riding Uber, you're riding the cheap stuff, you're over there. But why is this business class, first class passenger having to go the furthest? Airport after airport. I mean, it's, it's one of those things that

Brett Barenholtz: 36:52

It's, it's not always the case in every airport, in, in some airports. Well, one of the things that I, I feel the airlines understand very well is the first 20 seats on the plane is where their, all their profit comes from. They're not making profit charging someone a ticket, 200 to and from. L. A. from Boston, they're making it on the guy in first class that's paying two grand.

Ken Lucci: 37:16

70 percent of airline profitability is from the corporate traveler in business class, business class traveler, or first class. That's 70 percent of their operating profit.

Brett Barenholtz: 37:28

You know what? I knew Ken would have that number too. I knew Ken would have that number. I sort of put the T up there. I knew he'd have all these numbers.

Ken Lucci: 37:36

It's in the, it's in the financial state of the industry report that's coming out later in the year. Okay. Data, data is my life. Sorry.

James Blain: 37:45

No, I,

Ken Lucci: 37:45

not dating, not dating. Data is my life. I wish dating was my

James Blain: 37:50

he, he's working on that one too. No, I, I think, I think the big thing here, and I think the big takeaway for everyone is. If you plan to be on this business for more than five minutes, if you plan to be in this industry for more than five minutes, these are all things that even if it's not your immediate concern now, it's going to be. And I love that you brought up the quote earlier, Bricks. It's one of my all time favorites. And the time to make a friend is not when you need that friend. The time to start building those relationships. It's not when you're drowning and you need them to come get to you. It's when you have those people that are already looking out for you. You brought up that accident in New York. We've got an illegal operator. We've got someone who's doing everything wrong. And if we didn't have that opportunity, if we didn't have that relationship to be able to come in and say, no, that's not one of ours. They broke every rule. If you would have put those laws in place, they wouldn't have followed them everywhere anyway. So there's no point in doing that. That really speaks volumes into what Day on the Hill is really about. Because with Day on the Hill, you're doing exactly what we teach in PACS. And that's not driving directly in front of your vehicle. It's looking down the road at what's coming ahead. It's being ready for what you're going to reach before you reach it, instead of trying to be reactive when you

Ken Lucci: 39:11

and if this business, you know, this, if, If this is just a, a dodge or a gig to you, or, you know, it's not your life. It's not a way for you to create in personal income, personal wealth, don't go, but if you've got your personal wealth tied up in this industry, you have to get serious about. Participating across the board in the industry, because there's a lot of stuff coming up, we've got, we think the disruption is over to me when disruption starts in an industry, it never stops. Right. So you, so Uber, as we talked about before, Uber is, is trying to make headway into the corporate space. We have autonomous regulations coming up in the fed, the department of transportation. I mean, that there's a big push to have autonomous regulation at the federal level. And it's been openly said so that it's not state by state death by a thousand stabs. They want to push that in. We have to have a seat at the table. We at least have to, we have to be prepared for it. We have to be a voice as far as the state is concerned, the legislators are concerned because there's an employment component there, right? Um, when autonomous comes in, those people have to find other jobs. And again, at the airports, we don't just serve the celebrity class or the corporate class. I know a lot of retirees or wealthy travelers, right? That are walking with a cane or they have a pacemaker. They don't want to get into an Uber because you know, they, they, they want to use a private service. We have to have a seat at that table. Um, so if you've got any amount of your wealth tied up in this industry, day on the hill to me, it should be a participant. And just the one on one conversations you can have and the networking and the people that you're going to meet are going to be critically important because you never know when you're going to need them.

Brett Barenholtz: 41:09

Well, it's It's funny because there are some people that I met a day on the hill in the last few years that were scholarship winners today on the hill. We even have scholarships for that and you should apply now if you've never been. these people might've been one, two car operators. And in the course of the last two, three years, I've seen them grown into 10, 20 car operators, just because they had a kind of networking from day on the hill, really. And then you see them at the shows and other things like that, where they put themselves out there. It's not easy putting yourself out there. It's hard, even if you're gregarious or if you're shy, it's hard to do it because you're uncomfortable, but we try to make it so everybody, learns and meets each other that is on day in the hill. So it's very different than just sitting at one table. I want the guy from New Mexico to meet the person from New Jersey. I want everyone to meet each other. And that's been happening over the last few years and it's been great. and there's a camaraderie there that I think I feel every time that I go to the, shows and I see the people that are regulars a day on the hill. I love seeing them.

Ken Lucci: 42:29

Well, it look, and I will speak to one thing there. Some people operators have said to me, well, you know, it's an exclusive club. I have never found a more inclusive group of people. That's led by an association, then the NLA and the livery space, right? It is the most inclusive, the most welcoming. And to me, the day on the hill is a big piece of it because if there's no, there's no cost to it other than getting for travel. And it's a great learning experience to learn the process and get to meet the people. It's, it, this industry is anything but exclusive. A club. To me, it's, it's a great inclusive, uh, industry if you take advantage of it.

Brett Barenholtz: 44:21

Yeah, there are people that might walk around like they're, they don't include you. Um, but that's, that's their problem.

James Blain: 44:33

But I think the other side of that is that a lot of it, and it doesn't matter if you're an extrovert. It doesn't matter if you're an introvert. It doesn't matter if you're, you know, uncomfortable. A lot of this is being there. A lot of this is, even if you're the most introverted person, you don't like talking to people, you don't like crowds, You know that this is an intimate event, you know that there's not a lot of people there, you know that the people there are trying to look further ahead, they're trying to build connections now, so even just being there, you go to your first event, you might not network a lot, you might be finding your comfort zone, but you have to keep stepping into that uncomfortable area for yourself, and you have to keep being there, kind of like you talked about, Brett, you had this person that was there on a scholarship, So they were lucky enough to be able to have some of that expense carried for them. And then once they were in that zone, once they started that networking, they were able to do it again and again and again. And so let me ask you if, if we've got a listener. That has never been a day on the Hill. They're looking at the calendar. You know, we have, well, and more so you've got two shows, you've got a retreat, you've got day on the Hill. If they're trying to figure out where do they jump in? What do they do? Maybe they can only afford to do one. Day on the hill is right around the corner. What would you tell that person about day on the hill?

Brett Barenholtz: 45:55

I would say It's amazing because it also makes you proud to be an American. It's walking around Congress and what's going on. Occasionally you can walk into some sessions that you can see. It's, it's unbelievable that we have this country and it operates the way it does. It's not. It's not speedy. It doesn't happen overnight, but it's really amazing. And you feel great about doing it. You also know that you're helping the industry and it's really a way for you to be a leader in the industry for your state or nationally. And everyone at day on the hill recognizes, wow, this person wants to take a leadership role, even though they're a one car company or a two car company, they want to help the industry. People who want to help the industry. I want to help everybody there on the board. Everybody there. When we see someone come in that we don't know, everyone greets them. We have this scholarship limo. org go to limo. org. And look up how you can apply for a scholarship to this if you've never been. And even if you don't get it, it's just a hotel room and your travel there. And there are a lot of people that are just within a few hours drive of a DC also. So, you know, it's just gas at that point. Um, but it's amazing. And I just feel from the last six, seven years that there is this really nice camaraderie coming out of day on the hill? that just carries over the rest of the year for everyone that attends.

Ken Lucci: 47:36

so, go to limo. org. Monday is, give us the rundown of the events. This is, it starts April 28th.

Brett Barenholtz: 47:43

So what happens Monday is we get together and there are certain sessions in the morning. Oh, maybe it starts around noon and there are sessions where we start discussing what we're going to talk about. We also have Cornerstone come in and give us like a point counterpoint. Last year was all about the election. And if the Democrats win or if the Republicans win, this is what we can look for. We've been lobbying for the last few years, no tax on tips, most likely that's going to happen. Do you understand if people understood? What that means to our drivers. It would be like you're giving your driver a 10 to 15 percent increase in take home pay without giving your driver a 10 to 15 percent increase it's costing you

Ken Lucci: 48:34

Yeah, without going up on your prices. Without going up on your

Brett Barenholtz: 48:36

Without going up on your prices without doing anything. And the other thing that's on the table that we've pushed is no tax on overtime. A lot of our drivers are busy season. They're not just working 40 hours. They're working over that. And so these are the kinds of things that they will pay off. A million times over for everyone in the industry. And it also educates you on a lot of things that you probably have no idea about. You might walk into your first show, or your first, um, day on the hill and be like, I really don't know what's going on. You never go to something all by yourself unless you're very seasoned. Someone from Cornerstone will walk in with you. You will have a little packet that you hand the people there, whether the Senator's there or whether it's the aides. All of your meetings are set up for you. You have a schedule. That's day two. You hit the road in the morning, you're, you're running in and out of your meetings, you're pitching the three or four things that we want to talk about. There's certain states this year like California, there's a couple things that we're going to have them talk about that the majority of the other states are not going to talk about with their local legislators. But these are, and you know, that's just from GCLA working with. NLA and their members saying, Hey, we have this thing happening here that we really want to bring it. And it's like, great. We, we might even put that at the top of your list when you go in. And, but it's just really a California thing at this second. So there, I think it's about engines and, uh,

Ken Lucci: 50:20

EPA issue.

James Blain: 50:21

Yeah. The, the California air resources board is

Brett Barenholtz: 50:26

So these are the kind of things that we're able to do and Cornerstone, who is our lobbyist there, there are certain states, we might say, oh, in this state, you go in and you talk about X first and then talk about Y and Z, because sometimes you go in and you start talking about a topic and you get carried away and it's like, geez, I only, you know, sometimes you only have a 15 minute meeting and it's like, oh my God, I got to get to these other two things. So you do it quickly. Okay. But then there's follow up, Cornerstone follows up, we leave them a packet with all of our information, then we follow up with thank yous, and you know, do you remember us for this? So there's this whole process that goes on that is why it's very important for us to have money to pay our lobbyists, and if there are things going on in certain states. We also have something that. We can download, send out a letter to our industry that you really just hit click and it goes from Brett Barinholtz to my local senators and whatever, complaining about this issue or that issue. So the legislative team has done an incredible job. Um, and I just want to, in case we run out of time, I just want to shout out to everybody that threw money into the PAC fund, whether you did it publicly or you did it. With the, uh, QR code in five minutes, that was an amazing thing. And it's all because our, our members, you know, they're all in on protecting our industry and doing the best that we can to help ourselves and help everybody around us. So thank you to everybody that gave to PAC.

James Blain: 52:15

well, and I think along those lines, you know, we're talking down the hill, we're talking politics, we're talking lobbyists, talk to us a little bit about the pack for those that are listening. That don't know what a pack is, how it works, you know, the big thing that's always stuck out for me is it's personal money, right? So it's you giving, because we can't give us a business. Can you tell us a little bit about why that is, what a pack is, what it does?

Brett Barenholtz: 52:38

Yes. What it, what it allows us to do is if there is a. Breakfast or a dinner or a lunch meeting with a certain Senator, we can write a check from the NLA for 1, 000 and have someone rep us and go and be there and maybe get a few minutes time face to face or sometimes we don't even have someone there or we have our lobbyists there. So it's important that they see when we call them about an issue and say, Hey, can you help us with congestion pricing? I'm not saying they do this, but there's a good chance they look down their list and go, How many people are part of this NLA thing that helped me out? You know, why are they calling me now?

Ken Lucci: 53:22

That's the way it works.

Brett Barenholtz: 53:23

when you have to have a friend before you need them. If something happens today, and you're like, Oh, let's, let me call my, let me call my rep. And they're like, this guy's never talked to me before. He's never supported me. No one in his industry. You can, I can't meet with him and you know, their time is very valuable and they're, they're booked out all day. If they know, whoa, this is someone that gives to us every year. This is someone that helps me. Yeah. Have them come in. Let's hear their concerns. I hate, I hate when people say it's pay to play because it is, but it isn't. It's about having relationships in Congress. And we have to have them to have a seat at the table and to have people that. want to listen to you because the second something happens where they say, Well, you know what? No more depreciation. We're going to be like, What are you talking about? All we do is buy vehicles. And who can we talk to? Well, right now we can talk to about 100 people.

Ken Lucci: 54:28

Yep.

James Blain: 54:28

Well, and you know, when I was really involved with the Hispanic chamber of commerce here in Kansas city, it was very special because, the big thing there is when I was working on the Hispanic chamber of commerce here in Kansas city. They actually spawned the National Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. And one of the things that I learned very early on is even though it's not pay to play, you have to pay to get in the door. And I've always looked at it that way, that the goal is not pay to play, but you have got to be willing to put down the money, to put down the time, to put down the energy. Well, and and not only serious, you have to Be there to build the relationship. We've we've probably driven at home 10 times by now. This is one of the very few events where you're going to get all this networking. You're going to be able to be involved and there's no direct cost to go to the event. And so what that means is you're still putting forth the time to get there. You're still putting forth the

Brett Barenholtz: 55:28

You're losing two days of your time.

Ken Lucci: 55:30

That's

James Blain: 55:30

losing two days of your time, but you really have to look at it as. I'm investing two days of my time. And with the PAC, the political action committee, the other question you should be asking yourself is if my company's in a place where I can afford to take what I would have paid to be involved and put that into the PAC to support it, that's what helps us get in that door to be able to start building these relationships, to be able to be there. Because like I said, it's not pay to play. But you have to make all these investments to get there.

Ken Lucci: 56:01

And you have to make the connection between the jobs and the money. Otherwise, it's, it's It's Uber is at the table all alone, right? With their, with their lobbyists, et cetera. But when you're putting a face on the ramifications of what the legislature, legislators are working on, it's critically important.

James Blain: 56:23

Well, and remember Brett, I'm going to harken back to what you said just a second ago. Let's get real that Uber rep might be in that office every day for that Senator, but that doesn't represent the little guy. That's from the same hometown. Your Senator is that maybe he grew up down the street, or maybe he grew up two towns over. And when you're able to share, Hey, This is really going to hurt us back home. Now it's personal right now. He's not there to help these rideshare companies, these big, huge companies, but they're the ones with the budgets to be in front of them all the time. So it's so important for you to actually represent and be a part of that. That was for me, the biggest lesson for the Hispanic chamber of commerce. In working with our local politicians here and we do trips to Topeka and we do super involved because if they're not there to, you have to be there to tell your story or some will. Not only that, someone will tell their version of your story for you and they may be telling that Senator. Hey, this thing is going to be so great for them. And if you're not there to voice the concern and say, no, this is how it's really going to affect me, the guys like me and all of us back home, they're not going to hear that

Ken Lucci: 57:35

And the next step of the game, the next step is to make sure that if you do go to the day on the hill, you follow up when you get back home with some sort of a thank you note, something to the home office.

Brett Barenholtz: 57:46

we do that

Ken Lucci: 57:47

Absolutely. There you go. So they are representing you. And to me, it's critical as a part of the process.

Brett Barenholtz: 57:53

One of the funny things that happens sometimes is You go into your senator's office, and the senator's there, or, or a representative's office, and they're like, so where are you from? And it's like, well, I'm from Western Massachusetts. Oh, what street? My uncle lives there. My, you know, they're

James Blain: 58:10

where they're from.

Brett Barenholtz: 58:11

your community. It's like, oh, wow, Yeah. you know, there's this personalized touch that gets back to, we're all from the same state, we're from the same county. So it's, it's amazing because sometimes you walk in And you're not even talking about your issues. You're just talking, you know, Oh, what do you think of the high school baseball team? They made it to States this year. There's crazy stuff that happens when you go into the meetings. Sometimes they're, a little bland. Sometimes I go into meetings and I know the senators don't like anything that we do in our business. They, they don't want to hear from us at all, but yet we go in and we know it's sort of on deaf ears. They're not focused on small business. They're focused on other things, but yet we're there. We

James Blain: 58:59

And they're they're still representing you though. Right.

Brett Barenholtz: 59:03

still representing us. And not only are they representing us, they're representing all of my employees, All of my employees, families.

Ken Lucci: 59:10

all of your customers all of your customers that make the choice to

Brett Barenholtz: 59:14

the customers on top of that, they don't want to piss off every customer that. Now has to walk father or now, you. know, we, We can't get insurance and give them proper insurance of 5 million or a million and a half or whatever people are comfortable with. So you have that, but they on the hill is great. And I do want to shout out the PAC committee, uh, and the co chairs of my ad Ryan and Jeff Rose. And I think Tim Rose is on that also. So thank you guys. And I want to shout out the legislative committee, which is Matt Asselin, Rob Alexander, and I think Jeff Rose also, and I might have missed someone, but I want to shout out both of those committees too, because they put in a ton of work for this, and to make it a great event, and they work very closely with Cornerstone. And of course our staff, um, Kyle and Sarah and Haley and Brooke. So just, it's really a great team effort and I hope everybody can make it. So, and I, I want to, I know I'm. Stealing a lot of your time here, but I just want to shout out some states that weren't there last year. We had almost 30 states covered, but we didn't have Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada. North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. If you're from any of those states, please

Ken Lucci: 1:00:59

Hey, get us that, get us that list and we'll send it out.

Brett Barenholtz: 1:01:02

I will

Ken Lucci: 1:01:03

We've all got, we've got, the two of us have got customers in every one of those

Brett Barenholtz: 1:01:06

All right. Whether you're a vendor, whether you're just, it would be for us to get close to 35 or 40 States. That means we have 80 senators. We get to see that means we have all of these. It's just the more people that hear the story from our industry. And we're very focused on the bullet points that we're going to talk about is, uh, it's better,

Ken Lucci: 1:01:33

It makes it real. It makes it real. So if all you're going to do is sit and complain on Facebook about Uber or congestion taxes, or you don't have a space at the, at the airport, we got no use for you. Participate. This is the most, this is the most inclusive. This is how the process works. When we were kids, it was, you remember that? Um, I'm going up on Capitol Hill. This is how a bill's made. You can live this process and it costs you a ride down and a day and a half

Brett Barenholtz: 1:02:01

a hotel room.

James Blain: 1:02:02

and, and it doesn't cost you. You're investing, right? This is not a cost. This is a investment in your future and

Ken Lucci: 1:02:12

business. All right. So. If I want to participate, I'm going to go to limos. org, limo. org, right? Or is there an S on it? limo. org? limo. org, the, the event, it starts on Monday. Great camaraderie. It goes Monday for prep. Tuesday is the event. Isn't there some fun Tuesday night? There you

Brett Barenholtz: 1:02:32

yeah, there's dinner Tuesday night, and then there's dinner on Monday night too. But, you know, and then I'd like you to also include what, there's some guy that's doing something on Wednesday right afterwards.

Ken Lucci: 1:02:47

We're not, we're not, we're not announcing that yet because we are, there is a chance that that guy will be doing it in Savannah instead.

Brett Barenholtz: 1:02:55

Oh, okay.

Ken Lucci: 1:02:56

That's a discussion, but Yeah.

James Blain: 1:02:58

to, to, be announced, to be announced

Brett Barenholtz: 1:03:01

Alright, alright, I guess I was jumping the gun. Sorry to, uh,

Ken Lucci: 1:03:05

Thank you for doing that. But that, you know, that no, no, no, not at all. You know, that guy's mouth needs, doesn't

Brett Barenholtz: 1:03:12

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. He

James Blain: 1:03:13

No, no, no. he's he's got his batteries in all the time. He's, he's

Brett Barenholtz: 1:03:17

Okay. Sounds good.

Ken Lucci: 1:03:20

now. All right. So, uh, we look forward to seeing you because both of us are sponsoring, uh, driving transactions sponsored and then James. Grabbed a sponsorship for the for the podcast. Uh, we are blessed to have you. It's always great to have you on Um, you you always grad Create great insight, but it's also a lot of fun To have you on the podcast. We're very happy with the success of the podcast and it's in no small order to the guests that we have on because I I don't know how anybody sits and listens to just the two of us to be

Brett Barenholtz: 1:03:54

you have a great podcast. Congratulations, Ken and James, and Thank you very much for having me. I really appreciate it. And please come today on the Hill. Please come today on the Hill. Represent.

Ken Lucci: 1:04:06

And now Brett, we'll let you get back to, I know you've got a tough rest of the day of work, so we're going to let you get back to that.

Brett Barenholtz: 1:04:13

Thank you very much. See

Ken Lucci: 1:04:14

All right.

James Blain: 1:04:15

Take it easy, Brett. Thanks for

Brett Barenholtz: 1:04:17

you later. Have a great day.

1:04:19

Thank you for listening to the ground transportation podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe to the show on apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information about PAX training and to contact James, go to PAX training.com. And for more information about driving transactions and to contact Ken, Go to driving transactions.com. We'll see you next time on the ground transportation podcast.