James Blain: 0:27

Hello everybody and welcome back to another exciting episode of the Ground Trans Patient Podcast. I am sad that I don't have my trustee co-host Ken with me today. He's probably off doing some big deal we'll find about later and get to see what happens there, but we have something really awesome today. We have Charlie Horkey back on the podcast. Charlie, how's it going?

Charlie Horky: 0:47

It is going well. Thanks for having me.

James Blain: 0:49

Yeah, I'm, I'm really excited about this podcast. I'm not gonna take your thunder. I'll let you tell them why you're here, but this, this is gonna be pretty epic'cause we're doing something pretty big here.

Charlie Horky: 1:00

Well, I wrote this book called Unbreakable Path and um, it's gonna be released today. So I thought we should do this on your show because you know, you've always been such a, a great host and I always have so much fun with you, and it was nice to see you in Vegas. So I think this was gonna work out well today.

James Blain: 1:16

Well, I appreciate it. For, for those of you that don't know, that haven't heard the episode, stop right now. Go listen to the first episode Charlie was with us on. So Charlie has written a book called Unbreakable Path. I am lucky enough, I got a pre-release copy I got to read through. And I gotta say, as someone that hears stories for a living, right? I mean that's, uh, being the host here, working at PACS training, going from operation to operation. I travel the country. I talk to people all the time. I gotta tell you, this is probably one of the most unique and exciting stories I think I've ever heard in the industry. I mean, where do I even start? let, let me, let me start with the biggest question. What, what made you wanna write the book?

Charlie Horky: 1:57

You know, a lot of people had told me that, that I should write it. I had a little bit of a, a misstep along the way and, um, before I, uh, took a little bit of a time out in my life, Peter Berg, told me that I should write my story. And so I was gonna have a 20, 22 months to do that. So I sat down and just started writing and I wrote and I wrote it and, um, I sent it to, um, my wife Megan, and she was able to transcribe my horrible handwriting and, uh, get it in some kind of form that we could get it to an editor. And then it started taking this, and it is a good story and people like it, but, um, you are saying to me like, why did I do it? I I did it because I had nothing else to do. And, I had literally gone from like nothing to nothing, you know, in 35 years. And, um, I don't know. It was just, It was good to do. So, you know, I'm, I'm glad that I did it.

James Blain: 2:54

Well, and I've gotta say, you know, one of the things, and, and you've, you've brought it up, is from nothing to nothing. And I think it kind of, one of the things that draws you in about this story, at least when I was reading it, is it's raw. I mean, you're, you're not holding mac punches, you're not sugarcoating. I mean, it's, here's kind of how I grew up. Here's where I started, here's how I have this meteor rise in this company. Here's kind of what happens. Here's how I end up now. And so I think one of the, one of the cool things about the way you've written it is a lot of people when they tend to write books, right, we tend to, we tend to see ourselves as like this hero and shed the best light. And I think it's a really kind of honest reflection. And anyone that's been lucky enough to hang out with you has kind of heard some of the stories that you tell. It's really neat to kind of see'em reflected on here. Let me ask you, knowing that this is one of those things where, you know, you were just kind of, Hey, I wanna get the story out there, I wanna put it out there. was there any kinda moment when you were writing those where you're like, oh man, I gotta hold that one back. Or I don't know if I should put that one in the book. Like, did you ever have that kind of moment, or is this one of those things where you just kind of poured it all in?

Charlie Horky: 4:03

No, you know, the book is 109 pages and, um, I, I could have, you know, what I learned in this whole thing is, is that like my story in first person might be interesting. There's a million interesting stories in, in to, in, in making a story and doing a film and doing a TV show and writing some kind of a book. You know, you gotta have lots of characters and character development and you know, what was going on. Like, I had somebody read this book recently and they said, well. You know, you said that you grew up with, you know, you had a div in a divorced family with your mom raising you in the sixties. Um, how do you think your mom felt about this? And the story was about me and so I, I read the story, I wrote the story in first person, and I, I don't, I don't know, you know, it, um, what I learned about doing this is that you have to be awfully careful. I mean, when you talk about including stories, I'm only, it's only interesting because I was in the limousine industry in Hollywood, in, in a celebrity. Had I been in Des Moines, Iowa, I don't think it would've been so interesting. I mean, I might have done some interesting stuff, but the fact that I was. only an arm's length away from people like Michael Jackson or, you know, the people that I was driving at the time and, and who I was dealing with because it was Hollywood and the story. I didn't wanna tell a story about them because that isn't what I do. I, I wanted to tell my story and they just happened. I, I just happened to be next to these people, you know what I mean? I mean, I didn't need to write a story about, well, one night I was with Michael Jackson and we did such and such, or one night I was with so and so and they were in a compromising situation. That was nothing that I wanted to do at all. I thought my story was good enough based on the fact that I started with literally nothing. I grew the company to, you know, a pretty successful level. The company's still in business today, under another name that shares the original name, empire, CLS. And to tell you the truth, the real reason I wanted to write this, not because I wanted to take anything away from Empire CLS, but Empire CLS. They have always looked at their history as being that they started in 1981, which isn't true. They started in 2005. I was the one that started in 1981 and brought the company to 2005. So if anything, I just wanted to tell my story because I felt it's my legacy. I mean, I've got, you know, three kids and, um, I'm happily married and, and I'm proud of the things that I've done in this industry and I'm proud of the, associations that I've made. when I talk to people today, they know who Empire CLS is and they're amazed to find that I'm the C and CLS and that means something to me. I mean, they would never be anything without my having done what I did. And so did I write the story for them? No. Did I write the story to, you know, to set the record straight? Yeah, for sure. I mean, but not with a vengeance, just because it was mine to tell.

James Blain: 6:57

Well, and I think, you know, it's funny because we live in this age of like all these powerhouse CEOs. You know, you think of like Steve Jobs, bill Gates, all these guys, you know, they're in this basement, they're working hard. And it's funny because you've got, you've got a similar story, but I feel like having read the book, I feel like, you know, it's almost like you fell into it. It started to kind of come up around you. You build it up around you and then you are just kind of building this empire and, and it kind, you kind of watch it go through. And it's interesting that you say that because you know, there's all of these companies out there. All of these big names and you know, we don't always get to hear the story. We don't always get to know where they come from. We don't always get to know the history. And so I think what's really neat about this book is that we don't just start at CLS, we start at Charlie, right? You go all the way back, say, here's how I came up, here's how I got in, here's how I accidentally ended up with this company. Right? And I, I think I, hopefully, I don't, I don't take away, and I don't, I don't wanna give any, any, any part away, but I think one of my favorite parts about this book is when you're talking about being a security guard. And we're not gonna ruin the book for anybody. I'm not gonna take this story out of it, but you know, there's this part where you're talking about that. You're like, I'm working as a security guard. I'm trying to figure it out. And it just, I think a lot of people are gonna think back to their own lives, right? How many times do you have these jobs where, you know, you kind of get this job, you're not really sure what it is, but you end up with these stepping stones that kind of take you in a direction. I think one of the coolest parts about this book for me is it kind of builds out and kind of takes things to where now knowing each other and knowing what you're doing at Slate services and knowing where you're at, a lot of that makes sense to me and I kind of see it. Let me ask you is, is there anything that you kind of see as this pivotal turning and, and of course if it's in the book point to the book, but is there any, like, is there any times where you're like, man, if I would've gone left instead of Right. I don't know that I'd be here. Or, you know, if I had to zigged instead of zagged, it wouldn't have played out the way it did. I mean, is there anything

Charlie Horky: 9:08

At. At which point?

James Blain: 9:10

Well, and, and I guess that's the thing. So it sounds like there's multiple ones then, right?

Charlie Horky: 9:14

Well, I think everybody, you know, can, you know, hindsight's 2020, right? I mean, you know, I mean, I can, uh, I, I mean I, you know, I, I made some real good choices and I made some poor choices and, you know, looking back on it today, um, I think that if I was gonna give anyone any advice with regard to right choices or bad choices, I think that the bad choices start when you're, put in a situation that's right in front of you and you need to deal with it. And instead of trying to figure out who you know, to change it or to go around it, or under it or over it or try to change it, or perhaps do something that isn't legal, that's not the way to go. you, you need to deal with what's in front of you, you know, transparently and with humility and to be honest about it and try to care about what you're doing. And if it just takes longer to get there, and that's okay, it'll, it'll work out better. And that's what I found anyway, that, you know, all these years later that, um, it's just easier to just go to work each day, put your head down and be passionate about what you do. And if you run into an obstacle, you just need to sit back and reset and look at it and see how you're gonna deal with it.

James Blain: 10:22

So knowing that we live in a, and I say this lovingly, we live in a, what's most on fire industry, right? I think, I think it's safe to say, you know, operators across the country, if you ask what the most important thing to that owner is that day, it's gonna be what's most on fire? How do you, how do you kind of keep that straight and how do you keep that from becoming the focus then

Charlie Horky: 10:47

What's on fire? Like? Like what do you

James Blain: 10:49

like, like what's what I mean by what's most? So I'll give you a great example, right? I live in the training space, so in my world, it's always what got screwed up that day. Did we have a service failure? Did we have an accident? Did something go wrong? You know, I see the same thing with quotes. Hey, we have this big event coming up. I've gotta find, you know, I've got this vehicle, it's not in my fleet. I gotta find there's, it's one of those industries where what I see, especially in the mid to the smaller operators, is it's always what is the thing that is stealing my attention? That's the most important thing that I've gotta deal with today. And I think a lot of the times that I see decisions get made that are those poor choices are those, Hey, I've gotta do something this second. Hey, I've gotta get this taken care of. Hey, this is the most important thing, instead of taking that step back. And so I would ask you then, how do you, how do you kind of take the step back?

Charlie Horky: 11:38

how do I take a step back? Would, but would be wind up going forward. There's plenty of examples in that book of, me making some poor choices. and I, I don't believe that, um, ultimately what happened, um, in my life at the time, you know, would've, I don't believe it was something that I made a left instead of making a right. I, I think it was something that was, I should have, you know, thought about maybe 15 years before. You know, I got into the limousine industry and every time I got up to the plate, I was hitting the Grand Slams. I mean, I, I literally in one six week period of time in the late 1990s, I took the Four Seasons New York from Manhattan. I took, um, the St. Regis from Dave Val. I took the Los Angeles Four Seasons and the St. Regis all in about a six week period. I mean, it was, I mean, it was a huge, it was just a huge movement. And it was solely because, you know, I had a general manager at a hotel pitch me with an idea that he wanted to have Mercedes-Benz in front of his hotels instead of Lincoln Town Cars. And I didn't think about it. I just said, sure. and then went and tried to figure out how I was gonna go buy$2 million worth of cars. I mean, you know, it, the guys that are operating today are a lot smarter. I mean, there, there's, there, there's some pretty smart guys out there that are in business. I mean, really smart guys that run really big companies. and, you can't think like that anymore. It, it's, it's much different today, with regard to credit, the regulation, how people work. If they work, it's much different. I'm grateful that, um, I'm not an operator today. I'm grateful that I'm basically, a management company that manages ground transportation, the idea of being in the space and owning the vehicles and having to deal with so much regulation, so many things that they have to deal with. My hat's off to'em. There's some really smart guys out there. I don't know that I could do that today. I was in the limousine industry at a very, loose time, you know, in the eighties and nineties and, you know, all you had to do is step up to the plate and just try to hit it as hard as you could. each and every time.

James Blain: 13:53

so I, I'm gonna push back on you a little bit there, Charlie.'cause having read the book, having seen, you know, and, and knowing the stories, right? I, for me, I've been in the industry about 10 years and one of the first stories that I heard was CLS Los Angeles and, and people that were there. At the time, and the one thing that I will say that I think you're, you're giving yourself a little bit of grace on is I think there's a lot to be said about stepping up to the plate and pulling the trigger. And I think that's one thing that comes up in your book over and over again, and not even have in the back of your mind that it, that you're not gonna swing for the fences. Right. It seems like the, the biggest miss shots are the ones that people don't take. And I, I've gotta tell you, having read the book, it sounds like you, you tried to take'em all. Now the, the one thing that I would ask is, you know, when you're doing these things, right? You're in New York, you're taking business, you're doing this. As you're kind of on this rise and as you're building it out, did it ever occur to you that you might swing and miss, or is this one of those things where that just wasn't an option?

Charlie Horky: 14:55

it wasn't an option. When you're at the Four Seasons having breakfast and your wife tells you at the time to go say hi to the general manager and you know the general manager's just gonna give you lip service and say, yeah, yeah, yeah, we use Manhattan, or whoever it was. I just went up there and said, Hey, how you doing? Da da da. Actually I'd given the, the Four Seasons a big piece of business with the royal family of Brune. So he was, you know, pretty happy to talk to me anyway. But he said, oh, I have this idea, and he told me this idea and what are you gonna do? I'm, I just opened up in New York, I was doing like$4 million. I was getting doors slammed in my face. The rock stars were using me, some business people were using me. But a major hotel like this, the last time I had a hotel contract was the Ritz Carlton Marina del Rey. I mean, it was a a wonderful hotel, a great start back in, you know, in California in the, in the early 1990s. But this was substantial. This was like a, you know,$3.8 million piece of business. And, and What was I gonna do? Say No, and then they liked what I was doing and they said, well, here, have this hotel, have this hotel, have this hotel. And we're like, yeah, sure. The hard part. But what was the easy part for me was they wanted complimentary cars. Like they wanted 16 hours a day of complimentary cars. And they just didn't want like town cars or Mercedes Benzs. They wanted May Box and Rolls Royces. I mean, those were$250,000 purchases. And you know, here's the, part that I wouldn't suggest someone do. You know, I had Coer Bank that said, here's$2 million to buy the cars. Here's another$800,000 line of credit, and here's another, you know, 90% loan against your receivables. So as far as I was concerned, then that was my money. I mean, like, you know, I, I'm gonna do whatever I wanted to do. And the bank would come in at least once a week and say, you broke covenants. And I'd say, well. Then fix'em and get outta my office.

James Blain: 16:48

e explain that for a second. When you say you broke covenants, explain that a little bit

Charlie Horky: 16:53

well, you take the money, you, you take, you know, you get a loan and they have covenants. Like there's, there's rules with regard to, you know, how much money you can take and what is for, and I saw a company in San Francisco I wanted, which was totally stupid, and it was like$800,000. And I wrote'em a check and I go, here you go. And I bought their company. And, and like, that was before San Francisco was like urban BCN, you know what I mean? I mean, like, that was before it was some 15 million or before, you know, Don Mankey or, Joe Lato, all those guys that, I mean, they were in business, bill Wheeler, all those dudes. But it wasn't, this was the mid to late nineties that, that kind of had taken a crap there with that, you know, dotcom boom. And this was the dumbest thing I ever did. But anyway, If you're doing business with a bank, you need to consider them as your partners. And you need to be respectful and you need to be damn concerned about what they view the money and how you're using it at the time, coming off of the eighties and nineties where you know, you, you do what we tell you to do, we're not gonna use you anymore. And pretty soon you're into these guys for$10 million and you know, I mean, it was all going pretty well, you know, until, it wasn't until things, you know, life happens, you get divorced. That was expensive. You know, nine 11 happens, the world stopped, you know, the recession came. People didn't come to Las Vegas anymore. Those were pretty big factors that were beyond my ability to step up to the plate and smash it out of the park. I was not trained to be in the business that I was in. I didn't go to college. I didn't, you know, I barely finished high school. I'm not saying I'm dumb, I'm just saying that, you guys have had some other guests on your shows that, are pretty damn good business people that I'm not sure, given the same opportunities what they would've done. I mean, look at a guy like David Selinger. He, he took over the existing company, had a lot of work to do, cleaning up my mess, and they're still here today. I mean, you know, clearly some, someone that knew how to speak, uh, investment banker talk, that wasn't me you know, my emphasis was always the client. My pursuit was to make the company great. My pursuit was to make sure that we had a zero tolerance for failure. That we were the best. in the 1990s, if you were a music or a film executive, it was a status symbol to have an account with CLS. I've fired people from record companies and they told me. No way. We can't leave. What can we give you? What can we give you to stay because we need to keep this account? It was just a totally different time. And then my competitors at the time, they were good, but they had not caught on. And most of the people that I was competing against were done. I mean, Harold Berkman, he was retiring. He eventually, unfortunately he passed away too soon. Um, Scott Brno, I don't know what he was doing, but he wasn't doing what I was doing, and it wasn't as organized. It wasn't as strong as it is today. Today it's much different industry than it was when I started.

James Blain: 19:41

Well, but I think, I think there's a, a lot to be said about the times and, and what you were doing, right? Because I think a lot of people like to think, you know, Hey, it was the times, hey, it was where we're at. But I think one of the things, and we talked about it in our last episode, and it comes up in the book, is you, a lot of what you were doing was building connections and shaking things up and doing it kind your way. I can tell you right now, I, I did some fact checking on you, and I gotta tell you the stories of having a guy jump off a pier, having to run through the tunnels of Los Angeles, you know, I, I gotta tell you, I, I have to yet to find a video. But I do have access to people that worked with you back in the day and all of them have gone. Oh yeah, we remember. We heard about that. Yeah. You totally would have'em do stuff like that. I mean, just it, the environment that you created, the way you approached it, I think was so unique and different that you kind of were the disrupter of the time, right? You were the disruptor, you were doing it different. You're approaching it different. But I think one of the big things, and there's some serious star power in this book that you talk about is, I think part of this, and it comes up on our podcast all the time, Charlie, is I think it comes down to connections and understanding, hey, you've gotta connect with people. And it sounds like you've had some mentors along the way. And I think that, and, and correct me if I'm wrong, it seems like a lot of those connections, a lot of those people that you were able to befriend and work with and build confidence with are a lot of what kind of put you on that launchpad that lets you get to where you were.

Charlie Horky: 21:54

Again, it was a different time, you know, it was a much, much different time. I mean, imagine your cell phone being a profit center in your cars. that doesn't happen today. But when the cell phones first came out and all through the 1990s, you'd make more money charging the charging for the guy that was on the phone, the ride to the airport than the cost of the car to the airport.

James Blain: 22:16

Yeah.

Charlie Horky: 22:17

I don't know how to say this well enough, but, you could get away with a lot more back in the eighties and nineties than you ever could today. I mean, I can't really put my finger on it exactly, but it was just, it was just easier. it was easier and it wasn't as difficult. And, it worked out. It, worked out well.

James Blain: 22:34

so, so let me ask you, one of the things you mentioned is you mentioned, you know, there's so many great business people today, all these things. Do you remember at your peak, at the largest that you were able to build out CLS? Do you remember what your revenue was that year?

Charlie Horky: 22:48

like 70 million.

James Blain: 22:50

so I wanna, I wanted to ask you that because I had, I had a very strong guess, and I would say that I, I don't know very many people in the industry that wouldn't absolutely be happy to have that number. And we're talking, you know, years and years ago. Let me ask you, you know, you mentioned the times are different and things are different. What do you see that stayed the same? You know, if, if I'm someone that has a business, I read your book and I, I think to myself, Hey, you know, it was an awesome book, what are kind of the top things that I should get from that or that stayed the same, or that still apply that I could pull through? What, what are you hoping to give people out of this book?

Charlie Horky: 23:32

You know, I hear that all the time. You know, people say to me, what's the secret sauce? And I hate that. I mean,'cause I, I just don't believe there is, secret sauce. And I don't believe that everybody that wants to be in the limousine industry, gets to tell my story. And I don't think that everybody gets to be rich just because they're in the, you know, they're in the limousine industry. we have everyone in this business literally from jail to Yale. I mean, you know, it's, uh, you know, what, what do they say? It's a three a, what is it? A billion dollar or a$3 billion industry, and 98% of it are made up of like 250,000 companies. I mean, of in two car guys. I mean, look at Robert Alexander, they do over a hundred million dollars a year. I mean, is that my target? when I first started doing this, I mean, my target was music Express. I just decided I was gonna emulate everything that they did as far as the professionalism and what I saw and, and, and what they built. They built an exceptional company in Los Angeles and New York. They cornered the music industry, lock, stock, and barrel. And so I think that, you know, if you're gonna get good at something, well you wanna emulate the guys that are better than you or that can, you know, that, that look that you wanna be like. And so that, that's what I did was, you know, I just kept wanting to be better work harder, stay longer, get up earlier, you know, do, do, do whatever it took and, and, and so it just worked out. There was many, opportunities that I had that I manifested. I mean, from being in the rock and roll business at an early age, you know, providing ground transportation. That was just what I did. I mean, what do I think people are gonna get out of this, um, in making this book? the hard part was getting it on paper. And so I met a, publisher where you can record everything and so you record everything and then they edit it. And that's spooky because, this guy's version of what you did. So I would say that the story is a really, really good story. You said it's a really good story, but it's a pretty watered down

James Blain: 25:25

I love this story.

Charlie Horky: 25:26

you know, did I talk about the time I got in a gunfight when I worked for the Bel Air Patrol? No. Did I talk about, you know, things where that would compromise? family. No, was there some pretty gut wrenching, horrible stories with drug addiction and being in business and, and failing my children? Yeah. But I mean, that wasn't what this book turned into. The, this book turned into more of, kind of a cautionary tale of to some extent. I think it is a good motivational book, you know? For sure. I mean, it's, it's, it's, the book does tell you that it's possible. but do I think I have something to share that I could give a reader that I'm hoping he's gonna get out of it, that's gonna push'em forward? I think that's up to the individual reader what, what they get out of it. So far, people have been telling me that the limited people that I've read it, that they really, really enjoyed it. And they say the same thing that you do. They say, you know, Hey, it's really raw, but I mean, you know. What was I gonna do? Lie about it, or, you know, I mean,

James Blain: 26:22

I think you've hit it, that really you've hit the nail on the head in a couple ways. You know, and I brought it up really early in this conversation for me, one of the things that I liked about this book is, you know, when people tell kind of their life story or their life story up to now, there's stories that they leave out. You know, even I even, I like, I am, I'm a talkative person. I got a whole podcast. That's all we do is talk all day. but even when I'm telling stories, there's, yeah, these are kind of the, at the bar stories, these are kind of the business stories. What I think you've really done in this book is. You've given enough context and you've mixed the good with the bad. Now, like you said, is there, you know, are there times that you could have, I'm sure there's stories that could have gone much deeper. I'm sure there's enough to fill, you know, a whole encyclopedia worth of volumes. But I think in terms of when I read it, there's a lot of things to be learned in your personal life. There's a lot of things to be learned in your business life. And I think for me, one of the things that comes up we'll give just enough to kind of give context here. I think one of the things that comes up for me is you really kind of talk about your real dream. Like if you had, if someone wrote you a blank check and said, Hey Charlie, you get to do whatever you want to do, where would you go? What's your happy place? Where would you be? And it's interesting because. It sounds like from the book, that answer isn't the limo business, right? It's the limo business at one point became kind of this vessel to get you there. And that's really where, you know, it kind of kicks off in this, this kind of crescendo of, of where things kind of all intersect. It's you have this passion, you have this, this ideal place you want to be, and you're kind of building a business. You're kind of doing things, you're kind of going. And so I think for me, there's so many lessons in personal life and business that can be taken outta this book that frankly for, for being, you know what it is? I mean, this is this. The nice thing about it is, you know, we're talking about a hundred page read. This is something that you can sit down in a weekend, you can sit down in a week, you know, you can take your time, you can get through it, but there's still tons of value. And the irony is not lost on me. And, and not to have any foreshadowing that, that we have the, the horse on CLS one and, and the personal horseback. Now, whether or not that's intentional or a happy coincidence, that part was not lost on me. That that's kinda what you chose as the cover is kind of where that intersects.

Charlie Horky: 28:54

it was a good, that picture that I used for the governor cover was taken by a friend of mine named Heidi Gibbs, and we had done a photo shoot and the guy in the picture was. Um, a very dear friend of a lot of people. His name is, um, Preston Snyder, and he's since passed away way too soon. Um, but he was, um, a premier chauffeur. I mean, everybody wanted to be like Preston and the clients loved him, and, and that, you know, and that was, that was pretty cool. But, um, you know, I am seriously passionate about slate services and what I'm doing today. you know, I had a choice. I could, I can, uh, get in and compete with everybody on price and I can, you know, see if I can get my personality to bring over business and do what I do. But nah, it wasn't what worked out. You know, I, I proudly say that I think I'm probably one of the smartest people in the limousine industry. And I, I think, and I don't believe that there's anybody that can do what I do better than me. And, and so at that level, that comes at a price and so. The people that use me, they're not the people sending out RFPs. They're not the ones that are telling, you know, Hey, I'm gonna take a cab.'cause the car's only like 10 minutes away and they don't wanna pay for it. Or are used to getting into Uber. I mean, you know, the people that are calling me today are people that value what I do, which is a part of their normal ground transportation needs because that's who they are. That's the level that they work at. I would say that I'm a specialist today, if nothing else. I've been doing this for 45 years and I'll do things that most people won't. Most people say that they're in a 24 hour business, but they don't answer their phone 24 hours a day or you can't get a car out of'em 24 hours a day. People call me and they say, Hey, it's 10 45 at night and I need an as directed at one 30 in the morning. and it's the artist that's performed in that city and the city's already sold out. But we get them what they want because they're paying for it and because they want us to deliver. And I get off more on that. I like being successful and I like being successful in complicated, difficult situations. And that's what my business is today, the ho hum. Day in and day out of being in business in Las Vegas, you know, and taking people back and forth to the airport. been there, done that. Not interested. I like taking care of the 1%. I like the 1% of the 1%. I like the billionaire class. I like, I like the challenge that, that I'm given. I like the people that I work with. And quite frankly, guess what? I'm not really competing with any of my friends to tell you the truth, because they need me and I need them at the level that I work at. I don't think there's many people that are right behind me. I think that there's everybody else and then there's us, and I'm still here. So I think they have to consider me. And I think that I'm, um. I think I'm a vessel of information and that you, you can ask any operator that if they call me and they ask me an honest question and they want me to tell'em, you know, my feeling about where I've been or how I can help them, happy to do so. I do not fear these guys. I could care less. I couldn't care less if my wife would like to correct me. I'm only interested in, I'm only interested in what I do each day with the people that are interested in doing business with me. And I think I'm the best at what I do.

James Blain: 32:05

So let me ask you Right, and, and having read the book, knowing your background, why not go try to do it again? Right? You, you, you, obviously, you've still got the connections. I'm sure you, you had, you've already done it once. What led you to go in a different direction with Slade services instead of going in and trying to do what you did again, why, why go the different direction? Why the change?

Charlie Horky: 32:35

well, like everybody else, we, we were kind of hoping we were gonna win that Powerball that was worth$1.8 billion. I, and, and, uh, I figured out it was probably about a$500 million net and I thought, you know, maybe I would call David up and ask him if he wanted to sell that company back to me. You know, may maybe, you know, but, but I mean, that was a fleeting thought and and I didn't win it. And, but a lot of people didn't win it. But, um, actually I did this, this is kind of interesting. Um, it said that you had a one in 292 million chance of winning that. And I said, well, what's my chances of becoming a billionaire if I don't win the lottery? And they said, my chances were better than winning the lottery to tell you the truth. cause I was released to Las Vegas after I, I was in federal prisoner for 22 months. And in Las Vegas you need to have a privileged license, which I had and was revocated due to my actions and my conviction. So there was no way in hell I was gonna get to be in business in Las Vegas. And quite frankly, as I think I said in the book, I was grateful that my friend Mike Haggerty gave me a job. And it was only shortly thereafter, an old client called and said, do you have an idea about what you wanna do? And I did have an idea because I thought about it when I was away, that I didn't have any capital. There was no way that I was gonna be able to buy cars and be what I once was. Like, what was I gonna do? Even if I got let back into la, they're gonna give me what? I'm gonna get a, an Escalade and start driving around and post my sign out front and say I'm back. I mean, I, it, it wasn't really what I wanted to do. I felt that I was more valuable and that I could make more money and that I could found a niche that would be in the management of ground transportation, than buying cars. And, and, and swinging that bat. There's a lot of people that do this today in the ground transportation space. And they're serious business people. And I would not want to compete with them. I mean, they're, they're not, not at all. I. I didn't have the money, I couldn't get into it, and I had to use my unique knowledge of the industry and my own experience to create a business. And that's what I did with Slate.

James Blain: 34:37

so you built a new path.

Charlie Horky: 34:39

yeah, I mean, I, you know, I, I don't think anyone's gonna gonna doubt me that, you know, what, what this company represents. I mean, I, I'm finally to a point now with Slade. It's been about seven or eight years now where I can go and meet random people that do not know of me from CLS and have heard of Slade. And that makes me happy. So, you know, I'm, I'm, I feel I've, you know, accomplished something there. And, um. Yeah, I that, that's why I didn't get back into, to iron. I mean, would I like to be back involved in it? Yeah, sure. In a limited way. You know, I've got a young son that's 21 years old and he likes what we're doing and he likes being involved in the limousine industry. And so you gotta start somewhere, you know, and usually the best operators I've ever met were the guys that actually drove the car. The guys that buy limo companies that lead from the rear, so to speak. They're successful, but not as successful as the guys that drove the car and worked all the way through the ranks and became wildly successful. Those are the guys that are super successful. Those are the real, operators as far as I'm concerned.

James Blain: 36:44

Well, and I think you've hit on something that's really important and you know, in the book you talk about the relationships, what you're doing. I think there's a lot of people. And I've seen it happen even in, in larger, wildly successful companies, that at a certain point they lose that passenger centric focus. They lose kind of that object of you have to provide a higher level service, you have to provide high touch service. And I think that's something that I have seen a lot of times in companies to where at a certain point. They become more focused on the logistics than on the service and the experience and the feel and the emotion. And it's interesting because you can see two vastly different companies at the same scale. You know, they might have, you know, literal hundreds and hundreds of chauffeur, but you might have one company that operates as a logistic company and then you might go see another company that has got hundreds and hundreds of chauffeur and they operate more as a service focused company. And it's interesting because one of the things that, that Ken has shared with us on the podcast before is that the companies that are focused on the service, on the training, on the customer centric side of it tend to mean more profitable. So I've always found that interesting. And that's something that you talk about in the book that you keep and that you had through and through. What do you where, I mean, for you, where did that come from?

Charlie Horky: 38:06

well, you take care of the customer and the customer will take care of you. I mean, I worked in Las Vegas m with the MGM property when they were building city center, and I had a lot, and I got to, uh, be around, you know, guys like, you know, Bobby Baldwin and Bill Macbeth and Steve Wynn, and they all, you had this same thinking, which was that if you take care of the customer, the customer's gonna take care of you. You take care of the company, the company's gonna take care of you and. You know, it's, it, it's gotta be all about the customer. It's gotta uncompromisingly be all about the customer because I don't even have a good example of not making it about the customer or I, I just find that the guys that put their own personal brand, I say this all the time, people say, I provide five star service. And I always say, great. Where'd you learn it? And, and nobody has any, they don't know, you know, they just think because they say it, that that's who they are. And that's part of it. But if you don't have any background in it, you don't really understand it and you don't really understand an idea that we truly are professionals, serving professionals. Right. if there's no ethos as to why you're doing what you're doing, well, then you get to chauffeur that'll show up wearing a flowered shirt and a funny tie. And by the end of the evening, he's wearing a t-shirt and a backwards baseball cap. And at the end of 12 hours, the security guy calls you and says, these guys supposed to be wearing suits. our clients get pictures of their cars and their drivers and how they're dressed in real time. You know, airplanes are landing and they ordered, they've ordered cars from, I'm using RMA in, in Washington, DC I tell Henry I want a picture of all the guys lined up, ready to go, and I send it to the tour manager. And the reason why I do that is'cause it makes'em feel better. You

James Blain: 39:50

Yeah.

Charlie Horky: 39:52

you know, I've heard stories of tour managers landing in, um, in, in the wrong city. You know, like Springfield, Missouri or Springfield, Illinois. I mean, like, you know, I wouldn't want the cars to be at the wrong city. You know what I'm saying? I mean, there's so much that we can do, we have time to do and that we can do with regard to making the, the customers, Listen, I'll tell you a funny story. I was driving Sting in Miami and he walked outta the studio and the car wasn't there. Well, he didn't call anybody. He just pulled out his phone. He knows how to use Uber, and he went, click, click, click. And two minutes later, a car walked in. He got in, he went where he had to go, and he didn't care at all about it. It was just, had the car been where it's supposed to been, he would've got in it, but left to their own thinking. Everybody knows how to use Uber. So the fact that they're continue to make make a conscious choice to pay for a a real service, you gotta be really, really good.

James Blain: 40:44

and I, I think the other thing that you bring up and we talk about all time is how many times is that gonna happen before they stop using car service? Right. How many, how many times do you think it's gonna take for that person to not be there, for it, to not work out to where the guy builds a habit, but a third time they do that on an Uber now it's a habit, right. You've probably lost and let's get real. If you get to the third time, you're lucky.

Charlie Horky: 41:03

Yeah. You know something though, it takes a lot to get rid of a client. You know, it's, it's easy. Um, it's easy for a limo company to drop another limo company in a matter of seconds, you know, before biting into a tuna sandwich. But a real customer that's loyal to you, to your company. They're not gonna leave over, an incident or two or, you know, something like that. I mean, it, they're just not, that's not been my experience. I mean, I don't have a bunch of customers that are, you know, telling me that they had to fake Ubers. But I'm just saying that most people, if you take the time to get to know a real business, you know, I, people always say to me, they go, you know, can you get me this business from so and so in the limousine industry? And they all wanna do business with each other. And I gotta tell you, this is a true statement. You ask anyone that worked for me at the time, I did not do farm out business at CLS ever. I did not grow my business doing farm outs. I wanted my cars available for business people that were using my company. So I've always thought that the affiliate business was decent. But you know, you go to sell your company and you go, oh, this guy gives me X number of dollars. Ask your friend Ken Lucci, I think he's gonna tell you that they deduct the amount of money because that revenue is not stable. It's not like a real

James Blain: 42:15

because they, they, they could give it to another company.

Charlie Horky: 42:17

in a second.

James Blain: 42:18

so you talk about, you know, one, one of my favorite stories in here and, and we won't go too deep into it'cause I think the book tells it really well, is, is when you're dealing with, I believe it's the royal family of who you mentioned earlier. You know, you've, you've mentioned just now getting these, getting these clients that are real clients that have gotten the time to get to know you. how do you go about for some people building relationships is easy, it's natural. Um, some people have gotta work at it more. How do you go about building the types of relationships and the types of connections with people that will get you to a point like that? How do you, you know, obviously, you know, you started from, you know, nothing all the way to serving one of the royal families. How do you build connections that gets you there? Is there any kind, and, and this is probably a whole nother series of books I'm sure, but is there any one piece there that sticks out?

Charlie Horky: 43:11

Yeah, there was a driver that worked with me, a chauffeur named Massou, he's a lovely guy. He is still driving today and a fabulous chauffeur. And he had a relationship with a guy named Steve Hu, HUI, and he was in charge of security at the Beverly Hills Hotel, which was owned by the royal family of Bruna. So when they would come to North America, they would contact their guy, Steve, we, for ground transportation. And he contacted Massou, Massud brought me to the meeting and the guy said, okay. And that was in, I mean, it was just, it was a

James Blain: 43:41

Uh, just like that.

Charlie Horky: 43:43

just like that. I mean, listen, I had to, you know, I, I had to perform, you know, but we did. And I mean, the rest is history. But yeah, that's how I got that account. It's the same thing with, um, with NetJets. You know, I was friendly with a client of mine, Casey Wasserman, who invited me to breakfast at the Beverly Hills Hotel with a guy named Richard Santui. And Richard Santui was the chairman and chief executive officer of Nut Shuts. And so, you know, I had lunch with, I had breakfast with him and we talked a little bit and saw that our businesses were similar with regard to direction of what we were doing. And then like, I don't know, eight months later, he called me up and asked me if I wanted to take care of his entire company because he was upset with a, the limousine company that he was using. And it was really just a matter of getting on my airplane and flying to Columbus, Ohio. And I got the deal done. I mean, it was, it, when you have horsepower and you're rolling and you're in business, it isn't hard to get more business. You know what I mean? Like, like at the time that I got to Royal Family of Bene, that was 1995 and I probably had, I don't know, at least 20 or 30 cars in LA or so I was doing about$10 million a year

James Blain: 44:52

Okay,

Charlie Horky: 44:54

I can't remember ever really bidding for a piece of business, to tell you the truth.

James Blain: 44:58

But I, I will tell you something, and I don't know if you've realized it or not. The one thing that I've noticed is in all of these major situations and, and most of your stories, I've noticed something that you do really well and you're able to tell. The person's first and last name, how you knew them, the connection to them. Right. One of the things that I've realized is that it's very people-centric and the same thing comes up in the book, right? You are able to kind of draw those links to say, well, I knew this person and that led me to that person. I mean, to this person. I mean, I would say if, if there was ever a case for networking and getting to know people and, and getting, you know, Hey, I know this person. They introduced me to that person. They did, uh, getting out there and getting to know people. I feel like that is probably one of the big things that stands out for me here, because one of the things that you've brought up is your story is not, well, I filled out the RFP the best and I gave'em the best price and I did this. It's, no, I went and I talked to this person who introduced me to that person, and then they said they wanted to do this, so we did that. I think a lot of this is just openness and kind of that communication and those connections. I think that's probably one of the biggest things that I've taken away from this, is that a lot of what it looks like you are able to do came from being out there and being around and with these people. I mean, like you mentioned just now with Net Jets, Hey, I had the horsepower. I jumped right on the jet. I went out there to do the deal. But again, it's people and it's people centric, right? You're not talking about RFPs, you're not talking about bids, you're not talking about any of that. You're talking about using your network and your connections, which I think is a big takeaway for me. Yeah.

Charlie Horky: 46:36

and you're smart to say that. Um, I, I would not have been able to put it like that. Um, that was never my business, you know? Uh. Early on Music Express in Los Angeles and New York took care of the record industry. I did not take care of the record industry. I didn't, it was, there was no way I was gonna be able to penetrate what he had going on. I was in the rock and roll business. Now he was driving the same people, but I was driving him for the concerts. So just over time, he was quite happy with Warner Brothers, calling him with millions of dollars worth of business. I heard a funny story about him, which I heard was true, he had screwed up Warner Brothers pretty good. And it was a famous, uh, CEO there named Mo Austin. He's legendary. And, um, they called Harold to the office at Warner Brothers and they were gonna fire him. and he was done. And he got there and he waited a couple of hours and he's sitting in the waiting room and sitting in the waiting room. And finally Mo Austin walks out and he looks at him and he goes, music Express stays and walk. Turned around and walked back in his office. It doesn't work like that anymore. And I couldn't compete with that. I had made my way into the rock and roll business through Avalon attractions. The reason why I told you that was he was only concerned with his business as he knew it from the record company. And I was more concerned with my business as I knew it with the artist and the tour manager. I was much closer to the artist than they ever were. And that, my business grew from handling rock stars, from handling movie stars, from taking care of people that are nervous. You know, you wanna meet somebody nervous, go talk to somebody that's standing on the curb at a premier that works for publicity, for Paramount pictures. Those people are nervous. You know what they say to me when they hire me? They say one thing. They go, are you gonna be there personally? And I go, yeah. And they go, great. You're hired. Good, Because that's all we want. If you're there in person, we feel better. And that's been my story for the last 45 years with regard to this business. I have shown up, and if you show up and you can, you can perform and you can be, transparent. When you screw up, you get to stick around, you know? I mean, I just, appreciate being on your show. I love being on your show. I like what you're doing, but man, it's hard sometimes, you know, because there's so much that I could tell you. But, you know, we don't have all day, and I, a lot of stuff I didn't put in the book, you know, you talked about writing that book. I could write a whole book on just my experience in Las Vegas. I mean, if I looked at it

James Blain: 48:58

Oh, I can only imagine.

Charlie Horky: 48:59

from 1995 until, you know, current day, that's a great story in itself. I mean, there, there's, there's plenty to talk about. My wife tells me on a regular basis, you haven't really written a story. I basically took everything that I, that I wrote and I've been able to put it in a format that became this book. And so. When you said, why did I write it? I'm hoping that if anyone reads it and they, and they get something out of it and they're in the limousine industry, great. If they're not in the limousine industry, it gives'em some kind of hope. Great. Um, but I wrote it as being a calling card to perhaps maybe get a speaking job, you know, if, if someone wanted to hire me for a podcast or something like that, or for, um, you know, may maybe it's, maybe it's interesting enough where, you know, a screenwriter reads it and says, tell us more. You know, at the time that I was, when I, when I first got out, when I first got out and I came back, there was a lot of Hollywood interest in, in what I was doing. But, um, you know, there's a million great stories. They only pick one and, you know, and you have to have a screenplay. And I had a really famous, um, rockstar's wife, I think she read it. I, I gave it to her to read and she was like, you know. You, you have to realize that this stuff lives forever and that you have children. And the scariest part about a screenplay is that somebody else's idea of your life is their version of your

James Blain: 50:20

It's, it's the, yeah. Yeah. And they're gonna, they're gonna change whatever's convenient.

Charlie Horky: 50:26

and that, you know, I'm not here to be a celebrity. I'm not interested in, in all that. I got to be pretty well known for being in the limousine industry, and I got to be really well known at a certain time of my life that was very unfortunate. And I pivoted from that. And I know what it's like to have a lot of attention. And I can just be, you know, remembered or respected for someone that annuity was doing in this industry, and I can help people, do well in this industry, then, that's good enough for me. I, you know, I'm, I'm a specialist. I, I'm not interested in being a celebrity. I'm a specialist at what I do, and I hope this book gardeners more of that attention.

James Blain: 50:57

I, I will tell you, as, as someone who read the book, as someone who thoroughly enjoyed the book, I would love to see, a second book because I think in my mind when I read the book, you know, I kind of, I, you know, and I've, I've read several books from people I've read, books from motivational speakers. I thought were great. I've read books from motivational speakers that, you know, there was someone that, that I was at an event, they're selling a book. I read the book and it was okay. It was kinda lackluster. It was, it was kinda like, Hey, didn't look like you'd been edited. You know, I've read everything from small ones. I, I grew, I'm one of the, the generation that. We didn't have iPhones, we didn't have stuff like that until later on in life. So I, I still thoroughly enjoy reading. I know that Ken is the same way, right? We both thoroughly enjoy reading, and I think one of the things that really jumped out at me is that this is, like I said, it's an honest account of here's where I got, here's what happened, here's where I am. So I, I definitely think that I would love to see a second book, and I think there's a lot of value. And one of the things that makes this great is, you know, a lot of times you read a biography, it's like this thick, it's like a million pages. I think you've got the right balance. So for anybody that hasn't, all right. If we haven't convinced you to read this book, right, one, you need to start reading again, but two, you need to get on Amazon. So for anybody that hasn't already ordered it by now, the book is called Unbreakable Path. Charlie Horkey, if you're on the, the YouTube, we'll, we'll drop links below. We'll drop everything in the show notes. I definitely would love to see another book because one of the things that, at least for me, you know, knowing you personally, I get to ask you questions. You know, obviously we've, we've hung out. My big thing becomes, as someone that's been in the industry, as long as you have, you're in Vegas, there's autonomous vehicles, there's all kinds of stuff going on. What do you think the next 10 years looks like for us, having been there for this giant last chunk where you built out, what do you think the next 10 years look like

Charlie Horky: 52:53

Gosh, I don't know, because, um, I thought about those autonomous vehicles and I don't know enough about it to speak to intelligently about it, but, my thought was gonna be if you're gonna be in the limousine industry, you might own a bunch of autonomous vehicles.

James Blain: 53:07

Yeah,

Charlie Horky: 53:08

yeah. I mean, I, I guess on the one hand. You take a metropolitan city and you have all these autonomous vehicles. So ground transportation becomes a moot point. And the norm is that anybody, you know, Uber's shown us that, you know, will get in these vehicles and move around. But I still think at the, I still think, you know, I tell people this a lot, is that I saw certainty with regard to my, business. And I think that people will, um, continue to want that. So I think, you know, hey, if you're in business, maybe they are all autonomous and maybe you do own fleets of autonomous cars, and maybe they are programmed to pick up so-and-so at his house and take'em to a premier and, and then the car goes to a, some holding area. I, I really don't know. I'd like to think that it's an industry that's gonna be alive in the next 10, 20 years easily. but I don't know, you know, they're all concerned in Las Vegas about the, Teslas are coming outta the tunnel. They say they're coming outta the tunnel and they're gonna put a hundred cars on the street. Everybody was, um, concerned about them building a monorail that went from the hotels to the airport, and they spent 600 million on that. That never really happened. And the monorail is more of a tourist attraction now than it that was gonna work. Um, I don't know, maybe in 30 years it might be quite different, but in the next 10, I think there's a huge resurgence of outstanding operators. I think the opportunities in Las Vegas as far as entertainment are huge. I don't really buy off on the studio thing just yet because I can't really see it or touch it, but they are building a baseball stadium and the pro sports have embraced Las Vegas and the industry has embraced Las Vegas and if the Super Bowl people could have the Super Bowl in Las Vegas every year, they would solely, because it went really smooth.

James Blain: 54:48

Well, and you guys have got F1 now.

Charlie Horky: 54:50

Well, and you know exactly. I. So I, I, I see a bright future for Las Vegas. I really do. I think if you're, I think in the next 10 years, I think, um, it's gonna be exciting in Las Vegas, more exciting in Las Vegas than I think Los Angeles.

James Blain: 55:05

Now that said, I think one of the things that was surprising for me is, is when I was out there last, I went and I did the, the Tesla tunnels. I did the zoo. I, I found the zoo much more impressive. And it was really interesting to me because, you know, the zoo is basically, you like a little miniature bus with doors that open. You walk in, you sit down, you strap in, and it takes itself. Now as interesting as I found it, what I thought was really unique was after I did that, I got home and I showed my wife, I said, this is awesome, this is great. And she goes, I'd rather be shot. And I went, what? And she said, well, think about it. You have this little tiny autonomous vehicle. There's nowhere for you to put anything. There's nowhere for you to do anything. And if I'm a woman getting in there late night and I get into this autonomous vehicle and someone runs in real quick, right as the door shut, and then they get in there with me, what am I gonna do? It's now gonna drive off on toast. And, and it was, it's brought up some really interesting things and it makes me think a little bit about kinda like the self-checkouts, where self-checkout was a great idea and then all the stores got robbed blind and they were like, well, we probably need people there. So I think, for me, this, autonomous thing, it goes back and forth and I think one of the things, and, and again, I think if there's anyone qualified to talk about it's you, I think one of the concerns that I have is, I love technology, but how am I gonna get high touch, high level customer service from a self-driving car?

Charlie Horky: 56:31

You are not.

James Blain: 56:32

That, that's the place I always come back to is, is without someone to provide that high level, high service touch. I just don't know that at that point, on the rideshare side, on the taxi side, totally makes sense, but I just don't know that in our world. if we truly become and stay on the luxury side, I don't see that being a thing and on a motor coach or a bus. I just don't see how you could have 50 people on a bus with nobody there to be that, you know, bus driver, that person in charge of it.

Charlie Horky: 57:03

I, I agree. you know, I, I don't see an autonomous vehicle meeting a, you know, a private Gulf Stream six 50. I don't see an autonomous, autonomous vehicles meeting, you know, a tour manager, you know, with, you know, multiple, you know, assets to, to meet them. although I will tell you that I do some business with a very young group of, uh, traveling musicians these days. And, um, they're not so cranky about, having to wait. that eighties conspicuous consumption is, that's about gone. I mean, there are people that want service and there's people that demand it because it makes their life easier. I had, I had this one rock band, this is interesting. I just wanted rock band. And you know what they hired me for? They hired me to make sure that each car had a rider in it. And I don't know if people know what that means, but basically it's their, their request of what they want in a car. And these guys wanted like six different wa, you know, waters, beers, energy drinks, pretzels, potato chips. And, and they, it had to be a certain setup and there were certain levels. It was like the three passenger, the six passenger, and the 12 passenger setup. Now, they would do a concert and they would let the runner vans take them all over and they would just have these vehicles show up to take them home. They were simply transfer vehicles. And even in Europe, we did'em all over Europe. They had to have the rider in the car. And when we told'em that some people didn't, wouldn't prevent alcohol in the car, they said, no, gotta have alcohol in the car. There was, the only thing that they wanted was those riders. It had not a damn thing to do with the ground transportation experience. It only had to do with the food that was put in each vehicle. That's what they wanted. I had never seen that before in my life. And they spent, they spent a lot of money. I mean, they spent a lot of money with that. Think about this. Who would spend$750 for something that you could get done for, I don't know, 200 bucks, you know, without the food? But I mean, you had, you had to explain it once in a while to somebody that was like, you know, paying the bill for them. But I mean, for the most part it's just what they wanted. It's the way they wanted it. And, and I think people are, the younger crowd today does not seem to be so uptight about right here, right now. It's gotta be a certain way and that was the way I was trained and raised was right here, right now. It better be perfect. That's not quite what's going on these days. If you're not available, Uber's okay, Uber's are not available. And maybe we'll take the subway. It's a different mindset. I do business with this band that they're, I, I don't wanna mention who they are, but it's a young band and they're very famous and they are not interested in my expertise. In other words, they don't need another cook. They know that I'm good at what I do and that I can get it done, and that's why they call me, but they never ask me my opinion. They never, I mean, once in a while I have to interject and say, Hey, I think you're gonna hit the wall if you don't pay attention to this. And, oh gee, thanks for reminding us. But I mean, for the most part, they just need to be me to do my job. They, they don't need any, you know, interaction from me or about what I do or how to do it or how it pertains to them. They just want it done. And if it can't be done, that's okay. happy to say thank you and move on.

James Blain: 1:00:15

but I think one of the things that we've also seen is a lot of this is time and place. Right. You know, it, it, it really depends on, and, and I think one of the places that Uber has excelled is in most markets, even the smaller markets, it is very convenient to get an Uber. It is very easy, you know, if you're out, you know, let's say you have a group, they're going from nightclub to nightclub, they're going out. It is very easy for them to decide, Hey, we're gonna go to the next nightclub, and the Uber's sitting outside and they can order it and they can do that. I don't know that, at least in the luxury ground transportation space, I don't know that from a technological standpoint that you can easily drop yourself into a major city and have that app and intuitively know how to use that app and have that same experience in every city. Whereas I think it's very different because what you're not gonna do is if you are, if you're out clubbing doing that, that might make sense. But if they've gotta go to the Met Gala the next night, I don't think it makes sense for them to show up in the same Uber that they were hopping from club to club in. I think a lot of that, in my opinion, has come down to time and place, and I think kind of what you were doing there and where things sit kind of have changed in people's willingness to do it.

Charlie Horky: 1:01:27

Yes. think so. I think you're right.

James Blain: 1:01:29

So I, I gotta tell you, I think at this point, you know, kind of knowing where things are going, knowing where things are at. I guess my question would be we've kind of, we've gone through everything. I've, I've tried very hard not to spoil anything in the book, because again, I've gotta say out of everything that I've read recently, this one's gonna have a special place on my shelf. Yeah. As we kind of bring things to a close. Is there anything you wanna leave the listeners with? Obviously go buy the book, right? If you haven't bought the book, buy the book. but is there anything you wanna leave everyone with? Any, any last piece that you want to kind of leave them with?

Charlie Horky: 1:02:04

Oh gosh, no. I, I not really, you know, I, I, I not, not really at all. Um, I, I, I hope you enjoy, I hope you enjoy reading it. I mean, it was an honest account of, of my business, uh, career and told in a, in a, I think in a pretty expeditious way. Um, I'm grateful for the business that I have today, and that I have a unique ability to make a living with, you know, what I've known for the last 45 years. it's a, it's work every day, but I, I learn every day from the operators that are in this industry, believe it or not. and I'm grateful for their friendship and for the, you know, for them, you know, having me along with them. You know, my relationship with the client is quite different in the way I feel about what I do, but I realize that I can't do it by myself, and that I need the best people. And I'm, and I'm fortunate there are, that there are some outstanding operators out there that take the cl LS thing seriously, that there's enough folklore out there, and that they want, and they want to be good at what they do. They know that I, I think that's outstanding. I think that, that they care, that that's the nicest thing to see is that they care. I think that's great.

James Blain: 1:03:09

Well, Charlie, I can't thank you enough for coming back on. We will definitely have to have you on again. one last time. If you haven't ordered the book right, if we haven't beat it into you yet, get on Amazon, we'll drop. There'll be links in the description. Easiest thing to do, unbreakable Path by Charlie Horkey. Look that up. Make sure you get yourself a copy. It'll definitely be worth your time. Again, Charlie, I can't thank you enough for coming on, and thank you everybody for listening.

1:03:33

Thank you for listening to the ground transportation podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe to the show on apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information about PAX training and to contact James, go to PAX training.com. And for more information about driving transactions and to contact Ken, Go to driving transactions.com. We'll see you next time on the ground transportation podcast.