Speaker: 0:00

A brief note to our listeners today, we are going to have a special guest to speak with us as part of Human Trafficking Prevention Month. However, I think it's important to note that these topics can be difficult for some, and that we are gonna talk about the realities of sexual exploitation and labor exploitation. This is extremely important that everyone be educated on and that you know what to look for and how to prevent it. However, it may be a sensitive topic for some listeners. If you can please stick with us through this as we share information on how to stop these horrible crimes. Let's jump in.

James Blain: 1:02

Hello everybody and welcome to another exciting episode of the Ground Transportation Podcast. I'm actually really excited today because there's not a lot of things that I get super, super, like soap boxy, passionate about, uh, but our guest today already knows this is one of the topics where I do kind of get soap boxy and super passionate about it. So I am lucky enough I've got Lexi Higgins, who is the director of industry engagement, kind of the all round expert, my personal friend, and I also have to say an absolutely amazing resource when it comes to information about human trafficking. She is with Truckers Against Trafficking, which don't let that name mislead you. Tat works with the bus industry, they work with the trucking industry, they work with all of transportation, and I can't say enough great things about them. Lexi, welcome to the podcast

Lexi Higgins: 1:48

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here and yes, you are. One of my favorite, uh, soapbox, uh, standards when it comes to this issue have been.

James Blain: 1:58

until I get pushed

Lexi Higgins: 1:59

A wonderful ally in our work over the years. So excited to be here and chat with you.

James Blain: 2:04

No, I am, I'm stoked about this episode. So for me, this is something that is it, it hit close to home. I'll tell that story a little later and it was something that you don't think about till it kind of happens in your backyard or you know, someone who is there or you kind of have that link to it. So I guess to kind of kick us off, can you tell us a little bit about your background and tats background and kinda what you guys do?

Lexi Higgins: 2:30

Sure. Yeah. So I've been with TAT for a little over seven years now. Uh, when I came on, our program for the bus industry was fairly new and we were starting to really engage with members of the bus industry around the issue of human trafficking and how and why they were uniquely positioned to be able to do something about the issue of human trafficking. Um, tat or truckers against trafficking dates back, uh, a little over 16 years now, was founded by, three women, a mom and two of her daughters, who really recognized that human trafficking was an issue in the communities in North America, in their kind of backyard, in small communities across the United States and wanted to do something about it. And when they started thinking about what would be kind of the strategic way to tackle this issue, what is something really meaningful that they could do around this issue? One of the things that, Lynn, who's one of our co-founders, the mom of those, of those two sisters, started thinking about was how she had grown up with her family that owned a roadside motel, and they had truckers that were coming in and out of that roadside motel. And she always thought about those truckers and how friendly they were, how much they knew about their communities and their roads and what was going on, how attentive to kind of details they they were, um, and how they were really kind of eyes and ears out on those roads. Right? And she, and she really respected them and thought fondly of that group of people. And simultaneously, as they were learning about the issue of human trafficking, they were realizing that those truckers were in the places where human trafficking was happening, right? They were at the truck stops and the hotels and the motels and all of these places that we know that human trafficking is happening here in the United States. And so. How strategic it would be to train these millions of members of the trucking industry on this issue to hopefully be able to recognize and report it if they see it in the course of their everyday jobs in these places where we know they're probably encountering it, they just need the training to be able to do something about it. And so that was kind of the, the philosophy that started everything, uh, you know, a decade and a half ago. And when they started training that workforce, they really saw it working. They started seeing thousands of calls from truckers coming into the National Human Trafficking hotline. They were seeing victims being recovered. They were getting case studies back from their, their partners in the trucking industry. And so since then, they've really just kind of continued to grow. They, work with pretty much every facet of ground transportation now and, and back. You know, when I joined in 2019, our, our program for the bus industry was. Was fairly new, a couple years old at that time, but really launched that because we wanted to, leverage those same points that are true for truckers, right? The bus industry also is perhaps not as large of a workforce, but also in those places where human trafficking is happening in this country, and perhaps even more strategically positioned, right? Those professional drivers to recognize this issue because they're interacting with passengers on a daily basis. And so those motor coach companies, right, those public transit school, transportation, your tour and charter drivers, your limo, show chauffeurs, right? All of these professional drivers and other employees within passenger transportation are interacting with passengers on a daily basis. And really primed to be able to play a role in combating this with the proper training. And so that's what Tad is all about. That's the work that I do is primarily focused on passenger transportation and engaging that sector on this issue and providing completely free resources on the issue for the industry that are tailored for the industry so that they can really understand what this issue is and how to do something about it within their operations.

James Blain: 6:39

Well, and I think you've brought up a really good point because one of the things that people don't think about is, especially in the pastor ground transportation industry, we are in a position to where we are going to see it in all of the key places. We are going to have an opportunity to see and encounter these things in a way that we're gonna be able to spot it. If those people are trained, if they know what they're looking for, kind of their antenna is gonna go up. You know, I think I'll, I'll share my side of this story and kind of how you and I know each other for me. During COVID, we had a human trafficking ring get broken up. Down the street from my house. so for people that don't know, I live on the south side of Kansas City and you have 69 highway that comes up from Joplin, Missouri, kind of Arkansas area, or I'm sorry, heading down towards Oklahoma. Then you've got 49 that comes over, that goes down towards Arkansas, Branson, you've got 35 that kind of comes up from Oklahoma City. You've got 70 that comes in from Denver, that goes out to St. Louis. You've got 29 that goes up to Omaha. So we're kind of like. Literally, if you just started drawing lines coming in from all these different major cities, we kind of get in the middle of it. And I live on the very south side of the suburbs, and there was this gas station. And what they would do is late at night, they would use the parking lot behind that gas station to do trade-offs. They would bring someone in, they'd change in vehicles, they'd, they'd move around. And I, I live in, in a nice neighborhood, right? This isn't, we're not talking about a rough neighborhood. We're not talking about a rough part of town. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not in the most affluent section of the city, right? I'm, I'm just in a nice suburb. But if you literally drive 10 minutes east of where I live, the houses start getting bigger and you start running into Patrick Mahomes and all of these high-end football players, right? The president of Cerner, all that we're in kind of what you would think would be the safer, you know, nicer part of town. And this human trafficking ring got broken up and for me. That was my aha moment. And it sounds like the founders of TA kind of had a similar aha moment of like, well wait, we have people that would've seen this. And for me it was, you know, I know that we've got chauffeurs that are fueling there. We've got, you know, taxis, I see'em there. All, you get all these people that could have seen it. And I don't know, maybe one of them reported it, but for me at the time, I had this aha moment of if we can use PAX as a delivery mechanism and create a course and just put it out there and have everyone take it for free, we could do the same thing. We could take, we already have all the truckers, you guys are already working with busing. What if we took chauffeurs? What if we made it easier for the shuttle drivers? Easier. And that's when Annie Soic and I got in touch and Annie and I built this course. And one of the things that I didn't realize was the whole process because if we're talking about the different people in transportation. A chauffeur might see someone in the grooming face, A cab driver might see someone in a completely different face. If someone is driving line runs, they might say someone that's being transported. You know, there's all of these different parts. I guess one of the things that I, I think is really important that a lot of people don't understand is, can you walk us through what that looks like? For me, this was really eye-opening, like, what does it look like for someone that doesn't understand human trafficking, to understand the different types and then how people got, you know, pulled into it, how they get stuck in that life.

Lexi Higgins: 10:08

Yeah. I mean, you know, and I think what it comes down to is there's a, a lot of people in, uh, the United States and globally that have some misconceptions around what human trafficking actually looks like, right. And what it actually is. And so, uh, and what I have found is that those in the ground transportation industry, in passenger transportation. That is the barrier that they have to get past in order to be completely on board with this mission. Right. The second that they understand the issue and how, interwoven it is with so many of the operations of this industry, it's so they are on board with, with doing everything that they can around the issue. But so the reality is when we're talking about human trafficking, the kind of, you know, the, the legal official definition right? Is the exploitation of human beings through forced fraud or coercion for the purposes of commercial sex or forced labor, wherein a third party is making a profit. And that's kind of a

James Blain: 11:07

That's very dictionary like. I don't, when when I heard that the first time, my brain was like, okay, so bad stuff happens to people and they don't wanna

Lexi Higgins: 11:15

Right. And which is, I mean, when you boil it down, that is kind of what it is with that third party who is profiting off of that bad stuff. Right. And so, so when we break it down a little bit, when we're talking about. For the purposes of commercial sex or forced labor, there's two kinds of human trafficking. There's sex trafficking and there's labor trafficking. So you can be forced to provide commercial sex acts, which is the sex trafficking piece. And that third party is taking the money from those sex acts. You can also be forced to provide other labor services, and the trafficker is going to profit off of that, right? So there's labor trafficking, sex trafficking, both are happening here in the United States. Both are happening in every type of community. They're doing that through the methods of force fraud or coercion. So I think that's really important to understand when we're talking about what this actually looks like, because, people have a hard time understanding how this could be happening, In front of our eyes and, and we don't know it. And it's because of that force fraud and coercion. Right. So traffickers use force fraud and coercion to control people and put them in these situations that they don't want to be in force is really clear for us, I think. Right. Physical force. You can, you can use violence to force someone into these situations, but the fraud and coercion, that's the extremely powerful piece. Exactly.

James Blain: 12:42

Way more powerful.

Lexi Higgins: 12:43

and that's where traffickers are, you know, I hate to give them a compliment, but really good at. A fraud and coercion. Right? And so that can look like a lot of things that can look like, posing as someone with a romantic interest in someone and starting to groom them in that way. coercion, right? Is perhaps leveraging someone's immigration status saying, if you don't do what I tell you to, I'm gonna report you to border control. It could look like someone, who has posed as, you know, potential romantic interest, has maybe taken photos of you in a compromising way. And now is saying, if you don't do what I tell you to do, I'm gonna share these photos with your family.

James Blain: 13:24

Oh, we're seeing a lot of that on social media with children these days. The suicide rate has gone up I think what's important with all of those is, you know, I think one of the things that I've heard when I talk to people about it is like, well, who's gonna fall for that? Well, that's not, and I think one of the things that's really important, and as someone who, it's funny because, you know, I'm involved with the Boy Scouts, I'm involved with coaching my son's hockey team. I'm involved, you know, with all these different things and this lens, right? That time that I've spent with you, that time that I spent with Annie when we were developing the courses that we made for chauffeurs, It really kind of changed the way I saw it because I think for a lot of people, they take the courses that are like, you know, oh, well this is, you know, this is not gonna happen in my neighborhood. It's not gonna happen here. And what I've learned is in almost all of these scenarios, it is the boiling frog, right? You very rarely see or hear about scenarios at, at, at least from my experience, where it's guns blazing. Like they came and they did this. It's very much this person was likable. I wouldn't have thought it was them. I wouldn't have thought it wouldn't happen in my backyard. And they just, they slowly on the victims and on the community and everything, they're just slowly kind of turning things. And they're very, like you said, not to pay them a compliment, but they're very good at that slow manipulation to get what they want. And I think that for me is one of the biggest things is. That ability to kind of come in. And I think one of the surprising things for me is, yeah, you get the ones that are like, oh yeah, they had this, they had that. But I've heard of situations where it's, you know, I was, and, and I, I feel like their ability to target people, right? I was in a rough place and this person was there when I needed them, and before I knew it, all of a sudden I am a thousand miles away from home. I don't have any of my credentials, I don't have anything, and I have no way out. And I'm asking myself how I even got here.

Lexi Higgins: 15:21

Yeah. This crime is truly built on a foundation of targeting vulnerabilities, right? Targeting vulnerabilities in people, and truly any person, and especially any young person, has vulnerabilities, right? So that could be basic needs are not being met, right? You're homeless, you can't pay your bills. Those are really easy for a trafficker to leverage and say, well, here's how you're gonna pay your bills, or, I'm gonna pay your bills, and now you owe me, right? I'm gonna give you shelter or safety, and now you owe me. It can also be just the vulnerability of not feeling like you fit in. you know, we see this, uh, in a high percentage with L-G-B-T-Q youth who feel like they're not safe at home, they don't have a place to belong, and that trafficker's able to give them that place that they belong, right. Supposedly. And that's the, the entry point. It can look like that vulnerability of just wanting to be loved and liked and accepted. And that's pretty much every, you know, that that is a basic need when we're talking about the hierarchy of needs. Right. and, and traffickers are really good at leveraging those vulnerabilities to create these situations. And when they're using things like fraud and coercion, those bonds that are created are way stronger than physical chains. Right. Or, or the, the actual physical force that might be used. and, and that's why this can be happening out. On buses, at gas stations, these victims are walking among us every day with this going on behind the scenes. And, and the good news is that that means that there's potential for community members and members of the industry to be able to recognize these situations and hopefully play a role in doing something about it. that's really kind of the basis for tats work, right? Is that we know that, that this is happening and that victims, we know, we have statistics around the, the high points of intersection with the bus industry in particular when it comes to that recruitment phase, right? That they're maybe starting a conversation with a potential trafficker online that trafficker builds a relationship with them. That could be a young person, it could be an adult. And they finally say, Hey, I think we should meet. Why don't I buy you a bus ticket to come and meet me? In this place that you don't know, it can also be during their exploitation. So I think the statistic is around, 60 to 70% of, survivors of trafficking who have participated in various studies have shared that they used long distance and or local transportation while they were in their trafficking situation. So that's a massive percentage of those that are going through this, right, that are on buses, motor coach, public transit, uh, uh, ride share, uh, who are interacting with all of these different facets of ground transportation while they're in their trafficking situations. And then the really hopeful part and the statistic that I love to share is we have also seen an an incredible number of survivors and victims who, when they're able to, when they're ready to get out of their situation, one of the first places that they go is that bus station or to a mode of transportation to get away because not only is it kind of a, a, a place that can physically take them away from their situation, it's also open late. It's, it's kind of open all hours, seen as a little bit safe, available, accessible. and so we have a ton of case studies from our partners where, that was the situation, right? The, the, the victim came into the bus station or got on a bus and someone was able to recognize what was going on as they were leaving their situation, which is pretty much the most vulnerable time in this situation, right? Where they're leaving this, this, this horrible. F time of exploitation. They, they don't know where they're going. They have nothing probably to their names. Right. and to be able to give them the assistance and kind of that, that most vulnerable time in their lives and be able to play that role and giving them that assistance, I think is an extremely, important role that this industry can play too. And, and one that we've seen, time and time again that they're able to play too.

James Blain: 19:35

and I think for for me, some of the biggest things have been kind of like the myths and the misunderstandings. I think for me, one of the other really big eye openers was, probably about four years ago, I, I can't remember if it was before COVID or, or during COVID. Annie had invited me to a call that they were doing in Nevada, and I wanna say it was and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know if you, you knew about this one, but it was, it was like Nevada Highway Patrol. California Highway Patrol. It was like the Nevada Gaming Commission. They had all these groups and one of the big myths that they talked about, and then Canada spelled on this one, was, you know, you have this myth that. You know, even in Vegas, prostitution is just a job, right? People pick and they choose to do that. And they were talking about how, you know, they would have people that would be in a trafficked situation where this is not someone that decided they wanted to do that as a job. This is not what they wanted to do. This is, hey, you know, they thought, that trafficker was gonna do something to their family or they have some kinda leverage over them or they've basically got them under the control. And one of the most heartbreaking things for me, and it's important that you brought up, you know, supporting people when they figure out they're in the situation, is that they would talk about arrests and they would have arrests take place in Nevada. They would find out this person was originally from LA or some other part of California and they would say, Hey, we'll get you a ticket home. You know, we'll get you back there. And then literally within weeks they would see that person back there. And it wasn't that this person was like, oh, I gotta go back to work. It is that those traffickers. We're taking them. They knew where they were going. They would get them at that point, and instead of letting them leave that lifestyle, they'd take'em back. So Help us kind of understand, you know, with these situations where you have adults, where you have people there where you have kinda that myth of, oh well, you know, this is just the di they picked, or this is just the job they picked, or, or that's okay, they wanna do it. Can you help dispel some of those myths? And I think most importantly, the part I took away from the thing in Nevada was the number one problem with the trafficking in Nevada was actually the people coming in and buying the traffic. Oh, well, you know, it's, it's Vegas. We're gonna party, you know, we went out, you know, I, I don't want to try and go try and pick someone up at a bar. I'll just pay someone and come. And that's their job. And can you kind of shed some light on some of those myths and I think kind of misunderstandings around that.

Lexi Higgins: 23:13

Yeah, it's such an important piece of the conversation. Right. And I think you hit on a couple of really important things within that one question. And, and the first part being that, it can often look like this is maybe that person's choice to be in prostitution. That is a really intentional, design by the trafficker, right? They want you to think that and that. that victim, that survivor has probably been conditioned in a lot of ways to think that themselves as well. Oftentimes, it's hard for them to identify as a victim, right? They have

James Blain: 23:52

so it's almost like alcoholism, it sounds like, right? You've, you're, you're in there and, and you, you've kind of, you're in there, you're stuck in the situation and you don't quite realize the magnitude of what you've got. Right.

Lexi Higgins: 24:03

That, and we also often compare it in a lot of ways to domestic violence experiences, right? Where they're in these relationships, there are trauma bonds, they think that this is their fault. They think that it's what they deserve. They have been told time and time again that this is all that they're good for. Who's gonna want them now that they have done all of these dirty things, right? There's damaged goods. they have maybe done things that they're ashamed of and don't feel like they deserve anything else they maybe don't have anyone else to go to, right? There's, there's all of these things wrapped up in this experience that, so I think it, it can be really important to remember that. What we know is that the majority of people in prostitution do not want to be in prostitution. Studies have shown that, I always say that's, that's a major red flag. If you're, if you're trying to think to look for potential human trafficking where there is prostitution, there is human trafficking. I can guarantee you that it's not necessarily 100% of the people involved, but I guarantee you that where there is prostitution, there is human trafficking happening. There's been studies in the legal brothels in Nevada Right, that have shown that human trafficking increases in those legalized places because people aren't looking for it as much. Right. There's not, there's not as much of an opportunity.

James Blain: 25:20

good place to hide it.

Lexi Higgins: 25:21

Exactly. and, tons of, tons of studies that if you're, you know, interested in learning more about kind of. whether legalization is a good protection for against human trafficking, it's unfortunately not. And that is related to kind of the second point that you bring up in your question around demand for commercial sex that really is fueling the issue of human trafficking. And so when we think about, you know, supply and demand, right? Uh, the basic concepts, if there was no demand for commercial sex, if there was no one willing to pay for commercial sex, there would be no human trafficking. And so it is a piece that tat believes is, is really important to tackle, is that demand for commercial sex. Now, it's actually a pretty small percentage of the population that are paying for commercial sex, but what we always say at tat is what we want to see. And the statistics show that it is primarily men who purchase sex. Uh, but it's a small percentage of men. Right. And what we at tat really wanna see is like you do, like you just did, that other large percentage of men who are not participating in that to speak out on it and really speak out on the fact that that's not normal male behavior. It's not something that we, that we should be talking about is something that makes you a man or is a victimless crime. Right? Or that we should be, be encouraging in any way. And to really be able to break down some of those cultural norms, the harmful cultural norms around what that, uh, what what, you know, normal male behavior is, boys being boys. And that purchasing commercial sex is a harmful practice. And we as. Men, the, the call to men is to stand up and say, we as men will not do that. We have a campaign attack called Our Man to Man campaign that is exactly about that. Men from the industry who have spoken up, who have shared their kind of, you know, belief in really combating, uh, demand for commercial sex and, and targeting that we have a, a video and, and kind of a conversation guide around demand for commercial sex that we're also able to then use with a lot of our law enforcement partners, when they're able to do like diversion programs for those who are being caught purchasing commercial sex. Right? And being able to educate them on the harms that, that are associated with, with that piece. Because truly when it comes down to it, if there was no one paying for commercial sex, there would be no demand. There would be no profit for traffickers, which is what is driving their behavior. And so there would be no sex trafficking.

James Blain: 28:12

If, if no one's buying, who's gonna bother selling? Now let me also ask you. Right. and this was something else that, that for me came up kind of shifting to the other side of that. I think a lot of people on the sex trafficking side think that it's a lot of men pulling people in. It's a lot of, you know, you, you think of the cartoonized almost, you know, the giant pimp hat with the big old feather in it and you got the perps, you know, all of those things. But one of the other things that I learned was, in a lot of cases you have women that are trying to make other women feel safe and pulling them in as well. And so I think the, uh, the other piece for me is that. A lot of these stereotypes, a lot of these things that we think we know about how commercial sex works. I'm not gonna say they're not, they're, they're entirely wrong because I don't think that's true. But I think there's a lot more to it and things there. And I think that for me was another eyeopener was, you know, you've got people that are already trafficked, pulling people in, but then you have these stereotypes that don't always fit the mold. You might look at someone and think, oh yeah, that they fit the mold. And then you see someone that's actually a sex trafficker and you're like, I never would've thought of. At?

Lexi Higgins: 29:23

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And, and when we talk about right. De the, the purchases of, of commercial sex that I mentioned before. We see the statistics are primarily white, middle to upper class men, right? When we're talking about statistics of who the traffickers are, who is profiting off of that exploitation, who is doing the forced fraud and coercion, they really run the gamut when it comes to gender, age, background, ethnicity, right? All of these things, they are an incredibly diverse group that are, are really kind of brought together under the common denominator of greed and wanting to make profit. And there are people from all backgrounds that do that. So, we have seen in, in many cases that, that trafficker and, and for children, the unfortunate reality is that for a lot of them, it's a family member

James Blain: 30:13

that was the scariest part for me is, is my understanding is in most cases it's somebody they know.

Lexi Higgins: 30:19

absolutely.

James Blain: 30:20

like when I was a kid, it was like, stranger dangers coming to get you. And it was like, no, no, no, no. It's your family, it's your friends, it's your neighbor. It's the people you think you're safe with. And, and I don't know if that statistic holds out, but I've heard that a lot and as a, as a father, that terrifies the hell out of

Lexi Higgins: 30:36

Yeah. Yeah. It's a tiny, tiny percentage that involves the stranger danger, right? The white van, the kidnapping. I won't say it doesn't happen, but it's very, very rare that that is the situation. It's, it's not even close to the majority. It's a tiny, tiny fraction of what's going on. It's, it's, it's absolutely before the trafficking starts, that victim has some type of relationship with that trafficker. And, and that could be an online relationship, right? Where they think they're talking to someone that, that is not really who they're talking to on the other side of that keyboard. It could be in, in more than half of child sex trafficking cases. It, it's a family member, it's a parent or an aunt or an uncle, or, uh, you know, another type of family member sometimes that is to pay the bills, right. That family members. Trying to pay the bills. And that is not that, that's an excuse. Right. But that's the reasoning behind it. Sometimes it's a family member who is experiencing addiction and having to pay for, their drugs. Right. And, and that's the decisions that they are making. Unfortunately. We have a survivor who shares her story in our, our video for school transportation, who was trafficked by her mom, who was a nurse in their community, who was also a victim of abuse in her childhood. And unfortunately, abused people who don't get help often perpetuate that. But Liz was trafficked from, you know. Young through high school until she graduated high school and left the home. And no one was able, ever able to identify that that was going on, even though she went to school every day. She rode the school bus every day. and her mom was going to work as a nurse every day, and this was happening behind the scenes. Right. So it's very possible that that can be happening in, in really any community. And, and so we see, you know, that we can, you see sometimes like a coach, a mentor, right? A another trusted adult in someone's life, uh, again, that romantic interest is, is often an extremely powerful relationship or an employer, someone that's posing as a potential employer, right? And someone that's gonna give you a job and then flips the script in that way. But definitely can look. very different they're not necessarily the traditional bad guy of what you would expect, what a quote unquote bad guy would look like.

James Blain: 32:59

Well, I play hockey. My son plays hockey. And, and one of the things that I will say is that of all of the sports I've been involved with, the training there that they give coaches and the background checks and everything they do is more than I've ever seen in another sport. And one of the things that's really big in the USA hockey's education program is understanding that power dynamic. And, you know, you think about it, these kids, whether or not you are even a good coach, whether or not you're good at the sport, you're coaching, a lot of'em look up to you. And there's kind of this almost, it's not a parental type role, but there is a power dynamic. And, and I, I think about it because, you know, there's a, there's a boy that my son plays with and every time we're out there, Hey coach, how you doing coach? Did you see that? Coach did? And you can tell that he's looking for some kind of validation. And he's looking for that and he's looking for that feedback and he wants to improve. And, to the boy's credit, he's getting better and he's great. But, you know, for me, I feel good knowing that I'm helping him out. What, what scares me is, how easily in a community where if you don't follow the types of rules that they have in place, you know, always two coaches together, never you and the child, right? All of those types of things. There's all this room. so I guess for me, a lot of this, like I said, this journey for me started five years ago when I saw that, I saw what happened here in our community, and at that point it almost is like taken off a pair of sunglasses. It's things you would've never saw thought about. And so keeping that in mind and shifting gears a little bit, obviously we've worked together, you know, we have a program that we've developed, especially for chauffeurs. We push the bus training. You know, we've got a, a success story that we'll share. How do you start if you are someone listening to this that is having that moment of, I didn't know this was a big problem, I just know it was a big deal. You know, how do you start taking those glasses off? And, and kind of to tie into that a little bit, we've really kind of shifted more towards the sex trafficking because that's what happened in my backyard, right? That's what I'm super in tuned to. How do you also then start learning to see. The labor trafficking and the, the coercion and the force and the things that happened there.

Lexi Higgins: 36:25

Yeah. Well. So the good news is that it's, it's perfect timing, right? If you're listening to this and you're thinking, gosh, I wanna learn more, because January is human trafficking Prevention and Awareness month in the United States. So there is a huge conversation going on right now around this issue. There is a huge number of, uh, learning opportunities in your local community online with Tat tat offers weekly webinars throughout the month that are open to the public, right? All kinds of opportunities to really start learning about the issue and getting more involved. So it's perfect timing. What I would say my recommendation is to just continue seeking out that information. A great starting point, uh, you know, I'm biased, but it is, is with chat, especially if you're a member of the ground transportation industry, we have. An online learning portal that's free for anyone to go through. They can select which sector of the industry they're from and go through that training. We also have a, a pretty new training called You've Seen us before. That is meant for anyone that you know, whether you're a part of the transportation industry or not, to be able to go through and learn more about both sex trafficking and labor trafficking. It walks through a sex trafficking scenario and a labor trafficking scenario. Uh, the labor trafficking one is set in a restaurant and the sex trafficking one is set in a hotel, right? These places that pretty much all of us frequent in some way, whether it's as part of work or as part of, you know, your daily life or as part of your vacation travels, what have you. So to be able to just start learning more about the realities of. The issue. and yeah, to just, to really start, soaking in some of that information. I always say every person in our, in our communities can play a role on this issue. The more eyes and ears that we have educated, the better we're able to fight back against this issue as, communities. And so to be able to really just get educated, be prepared to spot something and report it. You and I both know from the stories that we've heard, the success stories, right, that it can happen anywhere. And just that willingness to be able to you know, listen to your instinct, listen to your gut and make a call can change one person's life. It can change many people's lives, and that's. Sometimes I think sounds really saccharine and you know, a little too good to be true, but in this case it really truly is true that you could notice one thing, make one call and change people's lives.

James Blain: 39:08

Oh, absolutely. And I think, I think Tim would, would be happy to know that, that we're gonna share his story. You know, former guest of the podcast, Tim Rose from Dolphin Transportation, who's now part of the, the Hoffman Group. You know, one of the things that we did is when I had that aha moment, I reached out to Annie and we immediately integrated all of the busing on the lookout stuff we could into Pax. And my big thing was if I can make it a checkbox, and to this day it's still just a checkbox, right? If you are having your drivers on the motor coach side, just go through the, the fundamentals of Motor coach and you're just checking the boxes right in there is the tap busting on the lookout program that you can click and you can have them take that. And that was a big thing. And then one of the things, and we've talked a little bit about it, is the transportation side. Of what you're gonna see as a bus driver is probably a little different than what you would see as a chauffeur. And one of the things that, when Annie and I were talking about this we came to is, you know, if you're a chauffeur that's going to casinos, if you are taking people to nightclubs, if you're going to the nice hotels, you again know this better than I do, so, so correct me if I, I misspeak on anything. But the big thing there is that there's this grooming phase in some parts of sex trafficking where they are basically showering that person with gifts. They are basically trying to win favor. This is part of that manipulation tactic where they're building that bond. They're trying to kind of do those things and as a result they might say, Hey, I know you've never ridden in a limo before. I'm gonna send you a limo. We're gonna go out. They'll pick you up. You know, in Vegas it's a little different because that person might be getting moved in a limo from. Casino to casino because they want to have that appearance. But a, again, in that phase you get the grooming. So that's where Annie and I teamed up and we built that course specifically for chauffeurs. And I wanted to be able to do that same thing. And so we made it a checkbox. And again, if you're doing the chauffeur fundamentals and you say, Hey, I want this person to take all the chauffeur fundamentals, that human trafficking course is already built in helping them understand. So to what I was saying about Tim with Dolphin, so they were one of the ones that early on loved that every single one of their chauffeurs, every single one of their people driving, shuttle, motor coach, everybody took that course. And it really didn't take long before down in Florida. what ends up happening is we have someone that is actually off work. They go into a diner and they see someone there that doesn't seem to kind of be in control of their situation. It kind of seems like the other person's kind of running the show. And, and don't get me wrong, right, it's, it's one thing for me to order something for my wife, it's another thing completely for someone to not be in control of what they're eating, what they're doing. so he kind of had gone through this course and all of these check boxes in his mind kept lighting up. Alright, that one's there. This one's there, that one's there. And so he makes the call and what ends up happening as a result is they find out that this is someone that had been hiding out offshore. They had come in to traffic this person and get them into trafficking. They were down in Florida because they had had p priors all through the Midwest. They had migrated down to Florida. They were hiding. And my understanding is they were actually able to save this woman and get her out of that situation because this person made the call. And for me that was like this big moment of it was worth it, right? Even if we only ever saved that one person, even if it's just that one time, it was totally worth it. But we know that this is so much more than just one person, and it really just comes down to that education piece and having that there. guess my thing with that one huge, huge shout out to Tim for having his people do it. You know, um, we, Lexi and I, obviously you, you and I share a connection with Matt Maglio over at Greyhound who's a former guest. we know that he's a big supporter. I, I guess what, happens after that call would be kind of my question, because I know, you know, one of the things I try to teach my kids is, hey, if you see an accident, if you see something. You know, you shouldn't be scared to call 9 1 1 and report the accident because the worst case scenario, you call them, you say, Hey, did somebody report this accident? Okay, great. I know it's reported, but I feel like there's this big stigma around calling or reporting or what if I'm wrong? What if, you know, what if I had all the check boxes in my head, but it's not that what I, help me understand what that looks like.

Lexi Higgins: 43:47

Yeah. I, it, it can feel like a really big, scary thing Right. To, to, to make that call. And, and I think there's a, a couple of, of things layered in there. One is, what if I'm wrong? Right? And, and then I've made this stir and that's embarrassing, or now I've pissed this person off, or now I've wasted the time of law enforcement. Right? All of these fears around what if I'm

James Blain: 44:10

If I'm wrong, I'll lose my job, you know?

Lexi Higgins: 44:12

Right. and then there's also what I've heard from many, many of our, in particular like our school transportation, our public transit. I imagine some of it would be the same for your chauffeurs as well, right. Who are embedded in these communities. Right. This is often people that I know you know, people are gonna know that I, that I did this and, and it can be really scary, but what, what? I hear we, we train law enforcement across the country, right? We work very closely with, with a lot of law enforcement agencies across the country to, to provide training and to just kind of coordinate resources. And what I hear from them time and time again is we would always rather have you call, we need that information. We depend on that information to be able to track these cases down. And so we would always rather have you call us and yeah, you might get someone that's snippy on the phone every once in a while, but the people that are doing this work, they need that information. And

James Blain: 45:13

is that the number? One way that these people get caught is reports?

Lexi Higgins: 45:17

know that it's the number one way. I don't know if there's even statistics around that necessarily.

James Blain: 45:21

I'd be curious to know,'cause I know that having it called in is such a huge piece. Like calling it out.

Lexi Higgins: 45:27

yes, and, and truly they depend on that information from the public. There are way more members of the transportation men industry in the United States than there are law enforcement officers, right? And so they cannot be everywhere. They can't be the eyes and ears in all of these places where it's happening. They depend on these reports and this information that especially trained individuals are able to provide, right? Those tips are, are incredibly important for them. And what I always say to those who are making the call too, because sometimes it can feel a little anticlimactic to be completely honest. You can call, they can say, great, we'll take the information down. And that might be all that you ever hear actually about the call that you make. And yet that information may have gone into an investigation that was the puzzle piece that they needed to be able to put X and Y and X together, that. Uh, three years down the line, they were able to make the arrest, right? you really don't know the impact of your call, and, and I think that's really hard for a lot of the people that are so invested on this issue that it's, it's not always, and actually it's probably rarely gonna be a clean and, and nice bow on, on this situation, that you're gonna be able to say, I saved x number of people and this is what happened. But that your call truly can make an, an incredibly huge difference, whether it's immediate and apparent to you or something that's going on behind the scenes and that your, your call is, is helping in that way too.

James Blain: 46:56

So let's, let's rewind. I kind of have a two part that I want you to walk us through, right? Um, if at this point you are listening to this podcast and you are not gonna go out and watch the video, I think you should, right? I think there's something wrong with you at this point. I think everyone needs to go out and learn more. I think that's extremely important. if you are APAC training member, if you're one of our members, it's built in, right? You can literally just click, go through, everything's there. If you're not right, we link to you guys. you guys have it free of charge, right? This is, this is a no investment. This is a couple minute investment. Now, that could save a life later. But let's say, you know, you have someone that never goes out and sees the original resources, right? They just have this podcast. What are the top things, if you had to condense it down and say, Hey. These are the top things that you look for, know that are indicators, and then talk to us after that about what reporting actually looks like. Because I feel like people are like, well, I'm not gonna call 9 1 1 and report this, but you know, you got the, is there like, I know there's a hotline for this and there's other nonprofits. Like, what are the major things you look for? And then what does reporting actually look like? Would be the where I think we should kind of try and wrap things

Lexi Higgins: 48:14

Yeah. Yeah. So major things to look for. I think there's a, a couple of buckets of things that I would say, right? The, the first bucket being, and you touched on this a little bit, those signs of recruitment, right? The signs of grooming are, is there, we've had cases where the signs have been that there's and this is a pretty stereotypical example, right? But an older man who was approaching young women at a bus station and starting conversations with them, but was never getting on a bus, was never buying a ticket, was being a little bit aggressive with these women. Security at that station recognized that pattern multiple days, right? He was showing up and this was going on, and they actually were able to report that to the human trafficking task force, and that opened up an entire case where they recovered victims that, that they had already recruited right? In, in other cities in the state.

James Blain: 49:05

that last part's the big thing, right? And, and this is like as easily enough as there was someone and something at a place led to actually saving victims. In other states, other places. I think that's huge because it's not just, Hey, I report it and hey, you got kicked out. It's this led to other people being recovered and pulled outta human trafficking.

Lexi Higgins: 49:27

exactly. And the arrest of those traffickers, right? So they can't recruit additional new victims either, which I, I think is always incredibly important to think about the multiplier effect of that too, and down the road, right? So those signs of recruitment and grooming, I think, are really important to see you mentioned, right? They could be showering them with affection and gifts and all of these things that offering a job that's too good to be true, right? That, that, this doesn't sound quite right. Uh, this, this is way too good to be true. those can be some, some red flags of recruitment of the grooming piece. in the exploitation phase right when the trafficking is happening. The signs of control, I think are extremely important to be on the lookout for. Is someone else controlling this individual, whether it's someone that's with them physically, are they looking to someone else to maybe answer questions for them? Do they seem like they can speak freely? Do they seem uncomfortable with this person? do they seem like maybe their answers are scripted? Like, like they don't quite add up what they're saying and they've may been told what to say? Right? Those, those signs of control, do they have possession of their own documents and identification and wallet? Traffickers often hold those things as, a way of controlling them, right? And keeping them close. If they have possession of their id, their ticket, their documents, that person has far less freedom. And then I think there's, there's signs of, kind of the force, right? Or signs of physical abuse, signs of fear, or if a, if a victim is alone, are they scared? Are they saying we have so many cases where someone's come into, uh, station or a depot, right? And said, I don't have any money. I don't really know where I am. I'm just trying to get home, or I'm just trying to get away from someone. And those agencies were able to say, instead of just saying, well, you don't have any money, we're not taking you anywhere, right? We're not giving you a ticket. It's, we're not a charity. They've been able to notice those signs of fear, right. Of force and say, alright, what's really going on here? How did you end up here exactly. And, and to be able to ask some of those questions. and then I always say, you know, signs of commercial sex. Or labor exploitation are also, things to watch out for. So if someone's talking about exchanging sex for money, if someone's offering you, uh, sex in exchange for a ride, that can be a pretty ime, especially if they're a minor. Right. We've, we actually had a case where that was an immediate red flag for a bus driver.'cause it was a minor who said, if you let me get on this bus to Pennsylvania, I'll give you, you know, I'll, I'll have sex with you or I'll do whatever you, you're right. And, he was like, oh, that's not right. And. It very much wasn't right, but even an adult, right? If they're offering sex and exchange for a ride, that could be a red flag. when you're talking to someone about their, or if they're sharing about their, their work experience, right? And someone's withholding their pay or withholding their, their visa, their work visa or, they have injuries from their work experience, that can be signs of, labor trafficking as well. So kind of any of those signs of, of commercial sex, labor exploitation can also be a red flag. And I always say, you know, one of those things on its own might not raise your antenna. Completely, or it might not necessarily mean a human trafficking situation, but are you starting to see maybe a couple of these red flags does something not quite seem right? Right. And in the context of how you're interacting with this person and are you noticing a, a couple of these things going on that can, I think is an immediate Yes. Make a call. It, it really can't hurt to make a call.

James Blain: 53:11

So let me ask you something. So two, two things, right? One, I I think you've hit on something really important, and I inadvertently brought it up earlier. You know, when I talked about the gentleman who was working for Tim Rose out in Florida, and he reported it. One of the things that came outta that when we were talking is it was the flags, right? It wasn't, Hey, I saw this thing, and it was, it was, man, I was there, I was at this diner, and the check boxes that the, the alarm bells, it stacked up to the point where he was like, Hey. I'm pretty sure this is what I'm looking at. You know, it wasn't, you know, hey there was one or two things. It was, it was that combination, like you said, of things that triggered it for him. Now, one of the things that, kinda speaking about science, before we move into talking about reporting, one of the things that we're seeing, and, and maybe it's just'cause I have my antenna up, but I see it all time, is, you know, you have this movement where you take your hand and you put your thumb in and they kind of clench around it and you know, you see it in all of these TV shows, all this stuff where, you know, you have the purse, they do it behind their back or they do this or they, you know, and there's this sign. I feel like that's becomes something that's kind of a great way to be able to tell someone. But I don't know that I've personally heard of that happening in the real world. I think that's something and this is, I could be completely wrong, but I feel like it's something that's really easy to capture on camera and put in a TV show, right? And you, you have this person and they, they put the thumb in and they do the sign right? And it's like, Hey, I'm, but I found that the stories that I tend to hear are a lot more like yours, where, you know, someone's like, Hey, I just need a bus ticket. I'll do whatever it takes. I need a bus ticket. Or, Hey, you know, we had, I had someone in my vehicle and I'm driving'em there and we're, you know, we're chatting on the way and things aren't adding up. And, you know, I, think a couple things come to mind there. One, understanding that it might not scream at you. It might not be loud and obvious in there, but I think the other side is how much of that really. Is that media commercialized? Hey, that hand signal type and I'm not trying to downplay, I think it's a wonderful idea to have that, but I guess how do these typically play out in terms of the way it gets reported, the way they find it?

Lexi Higgins: 55:30

Look, we all in. Most facets of our life want the easy fix, right? The the thing that's gonna be the, the like magic word this is gonna solve the issue. and I think when you're talking about kind of the media portrayal, the hand signal is, is that in a lot of ways when it comes to recognizing human trafficking, I've seen it being incorporated more and more in training. I always say there's absolutely no harm in educating on that, right? Absolutely. Another tool, it also requires kind of the perfect, uh, storm of a situation happening where that victim is identifying as a victim, has learned that hand sign makes that hand sign in a safe way where their trafficker exploiter isn't gonna see it, but someone else is who has also learned about the hand sign and knows how to respond in the right way. Right. and if all that happens, I think that's incredible. So I always say absolutely no harm in including that in your training, but it has got to go alongside this training around all of those other check boxes and all of those other contexts and all of the other things that you can be noticing. Even if that person, isn't reaching out directly for help, isn't making the hand sign, doesn't feel safe to make that hand sign, you can notice these other things that are going on and you can still play a role. so I always say yes and right, but, but I think that it's still really important. It's not, gonna take away the need for any of this additional training and information and that, that kind of list of potential, other indicators. And, and I, you know, I like that you say kind of the check boxes, that, that might help your antenna go up to something going on too.

James Blain: 57:17

Okay. So with all that in mind, moving to the idea of reporting of, you know, again, it's so easy. We teach small children. If there's a fire, if something's wrong, you call 9 1 1. I feel like we don't have that in the world of human trafficking. Now, ironically enough, my family, when we go on vacations, we're road trip people, right? Uh, the guy that has a training company loves to drive. What a surprise. and so I've taught my kids, when we go to rest stops, they actually know what the tat symbol looks like. And I'm like, Hey, if something happens, if somebody's trying to do something, like you need to know, this is the number you call for help. This is, and I love, and I'm gonna pay you guys a huge compliment here. I love that in almost every single truck stop, larger gas station, it doesn't matter if I'm on a major highway, a smaller highway, one of the things for me is I absolutely love seeing those posters. And I love that it's there. And so I teach, like I said, my kids, I'm like, Hey, if something happens, if you see someone I've had that, it's a, my kids are little, it's a very tough conversation to have to have with your kids, but I feel better knowing that at least they know it exists and at least they hopefully have some level of antenna up. But there's not like a 9 1 1 type number. You teach somebody to call for that. What does that reporting process look like? How do you call that in, you know, obviously one of the things that, that you learn early on is the last thing you want to do is go confront a human trafficker and try to handle it yourself and, and be involved in that way. What does the reporting phase look like? Who do you call? How does that work?

Lexi Higgins: 58:50

Yeah, definitely safety first, always, right? Don't get involved directly. Don't try to intervene directly. And that's for your safety. It's also for the safety of the victim. It's also so that there's no interference with what could be the future investigation in this situation, right? There's a lot of reasons why we say don't get involved directly. Your role as a community member, as a member of the transportation industry is truly to recognize and report and you do not have to be the social worker or the investigator or the first responder. It is recognized and report.

James Blain: 59:24

Well, and you brought up something important earlier too, that just because someone's a victim of human trafficking, they may not realize the situation that they're in. And that's, I've, I've, um, sadly enough I've heard as well where someone intervenes and it's like, what, you know, the victim is in this case almost, Stockholm syndrome type deal, where they're defending the trafficker. They're saying that's not there. Is that common as well?

Lexi Higgins: 59:49

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, because they've been really conditioned to believe that it's, it's them against the world, right? And especially conditioned to believe that it's them against law enforcement. by their trafficker, they have been conditioned to believe those things, right? And, and so yeah, 100%. I always say to my, my school transportation people, it's probably gonna be the kid on your bus. That's the biggest pain in the butt, right? That's the one that is giving you the most trouble and, and the most attitude, oftentimes that's the kid that's going through something like this, right? And, and same holds true for an adult that is going through something like this. so 100% there can be that response, but I always say, absolutely report it. The first thing I always say is that if it's in the course of your. Job. The hope is that there is a reporting protocol of, of some type to report this within your company. We have a template at tat that that is a template for a reporting protocol. So if there's any companies that are, you know, wanting to know more about what they should be implementing in terms of scenarios that, that they want to incorporate in those protocols and what does it look like and how are we gonna respond if and when this comes up, we have a template that we put together that walks through some of that too.

James Blain: 1:01:06

And we can drop that in the show notes as well. So for listeners to be able to click through, if you're listening to this right now, by the time you're hearing it, we will have already dropped that in so you guys can click straight

Lexi Higgins: 1:01:15

Yeah, it's a great resource too for anyone to kind of read through and think through some of the scenarios that could pop up right for you and, and what this, what it could look like.

James Blain: 1:01:24

what does that kinda look like in terms of the actual reporting? Walk us through and, and obviously you know, you guys have that template, but what does it kinda look like from just understanding that if this is the only thing they ever hear, what do they need to know?

Lexi Higgins: 1:01:37

Yeah, within the company, I think it's really going through kind of your, your hierarchy, right? Are you reporting to dispatch who's bringing in a supervisor when it needs to happen, or reporting directly to your supervisor? Hopefully there has been some thought around who are, who are our law enforcement contacts that we can reach out to with this information, right? but it shouldn't necessarily be that frontline officer, driver or operator or employee that needs to even make that report, right? You're sharing the information and you're documenting everything that you can when you're reporting. I think in, in general resources that when you're not sure what else to do, even if you're in your job, if you're not in your job, if you're in your community, there is a national human trafficking hotline number that you can always call. the number is 8 8 8 3 7 3 7 8 8 8. That is available 24 7. It's confidential. You can call in information. You can call in. If you have someone you know, a potential victim, like that person that walks into your, station and says, I'm trying to get away, I have no money, you can connect them to services, right. To victim services. There are also a growing number of states that have a state human trafficking hotline that is meant for TIP reporting and or connecting to victim services. So TAT has an app that we have created, that includes kind of all of those vetted state hotline numbers that, that we have relationships with in there. And it's all location based. So if you go into our app and you have allowed location services. We will give you the information around what the resources are exactly where you are, whether that's a state hotline that's available to you. Actually the national hotline is, is the best option for you. Here are, service providers in your local state, or you know, based on where you are that we have also vetted that are working on this issue. So if you're wanting to reach out to that, but I always say when it comes to reporting, if you're not sure what else to do in your job, report it to your supervisor. Right? Report it to someone, please, absolutely. No matter what, please, please, please make the report even if you feel dumb doing it. and if that's not an option or you're not sure what else to do, look into what the hotline is that you should be reaching out to based on where you are. And, and download the app. Because the TAT app also includes kind of those curated checklists of some of those red flags that you could be looking for. So if you're in a situation where you're like. Oh, it's something my spidey senses have gone up, right. But I don't really remember everything I should be looking out for. That's also a great resource to pull up that app and say, oh yeah, this was another indicator. And I'm seeing that right now. And, and help you kind of walk through some of those scenarios too, as well as, what are the, the hotline resources that, that you can be reaching out to in your area?

James Blain: 1:04:28

So let me ask you something. Having worked in this industry for a long time, I know that as dispatch, as management, you know what, whether or not they should, sometimes it's, oh, well, you know, this driver exaggerates, or he's doing this, or he is, you know, I think for me at least. Every single one of these, you treat the exact same way you would treat as if you had a sexual harassment case reported or you had something reported in your company that you are required to investigate and you investigate. I guess, what would you say to those managers or to those people that you know, if you're, and, and a lot of the, our listeners, our management or or company owners in addition to drivers, what would you say to them in terms of, if someone's reporting that to you, what are the key things you wanna look at? What are the key things you want to ask? How do you kind of evaluate and decide what your next step is on that? And, and another great question is, you know, uh, especially in an industry where we have, you know, clients who are working with on a regular basis, if it's one of your bigger clients now, it's like, well, confidentiality all this. What, what would you kind of say to those

Lexi Higgins: 1:05:33

Yep. I would say, um, go through the training and also, um, there are within the TAT app as well as kind of like on our wallet cards and in our trainings we include what is kind of the actionable information that law enforcement need. It's to be able to use this information, right? It's, it's really, um, clear, clear descriptions of what is going on, who is involved, what are the descriptions of the people that are involved, what are the behaviors that are making you suspect trafficking specifically. And we always say, say that you suspect human trafficking. Do not say there's prostitution going on down here, right there. Those are two very different responses that you're gonna get, but suspected human trafficking because of these behaviors, because of this is what's going right. These are the indicators that I'm noticing. And then the descriptions, the more information that you can take note of, the more information that you can share, locations, dates, uh, license plates, if you can get them right, if you're able to snap a photo of something going on, the more actionable information you have, the more likely it is that action is gonna be taken. That's a silly sentence, but it's true. Right? and and

James Blain: 1:06:47

it's an investigation.

Lexi Higgins: 1:06:48

Exactly. And, and so to be able to think through What is the most information that we can document and, and be able to share that's gonna be useful. Um, and again, we outline all of that in, in our resources as well of, of like, what are the things that you should be thinking about taking note of and, and documenting and, and being able to, and, and I think when you have that education and that, preparation, it's gonna be a lot easier to know when the information is coming in, it's credible and it's something that needs to be acted on. Right. Because those are, everyone involved is gonna be taking note of the important details and, and making those reports in, in the right way.

James Blain: 1:07:25

And, and I think for me, you know, this is something where if you have enough eyes and ears, this is something that you can make a dent on. And, and not just make a dent. If we had enough eyes and ears, I honestly think we could, eliminate it. And I think education is how you do that. Um, little biased, right? From a training company, but, normally the way we would end an episode is, you know, I'd thank everybody for listening. I'd ask everyone to like and subscribe, but I wanna do something a little different. I wanna end this episode with an ask to each and every listener, and that's to look at some of the TAT resources to learn more about what TAT does, to learn more about human trafficking, whether that be on the sexual exploitation or labor side as we kind of close this out. I mean, say most importantly, we're gonna put everything we can in the show notes. Um, we're gonna try and do as many links as possible. How would you like to close this one out, Lexi? What is the easiest way for someone to join the fight? If we're gonna ask our listeners to do one thing, you know, it's, is it go to the website? Is it, watch the video? What is the easiest way for them to join the fight?

Lexi Higgins: 1:08:29

Yeah, I think start by visiting our website. We have a ton of information on there. Uh, broken up by sector. So if you're in a transportation sector, you can find the information that's exactly relevant to you. Like I said, you can access the course specific to you. If you're looking for community resources, we have resources for how to talk to your kids about this issue. If you're, if you're thinking about starting those conversations in age appropriate ways, right? A wealth of information. I truly believe, and, and this is actually a direct quote from, from Liz who's the survivor that is featured in a couple of our training videos. She says, I truly believe that education is what's gonna make the difference on this issue. It is really just changing mindsets to believing that this is something that could be happening and that you can play a role in doing something about it. So just taking a few minutes to get a little bit more educated on the issue. Our website is www.tatnonprofit.org. and I would love it if everyone would just kind of make it their personal challenge to. Uh, you know, take 10, 15 minutes out of your day, one day during National Human Trafficking Prevention and Awareness month this month to learn a little bit more about the issue. I hope that it would be the, the sort of starting point to your allyship in, in this work and continuing to build that mobile army of, we're closing in on 2.5 million members of the transportation industry trained, uh, at the start of this year. And so, I invite you to join us in, in that work.

James Blain: 1:10:04

And, and I've mentioned it before, but I'll mention again, if you are using PAX training, if you're one of my members, it's a button. We can literally get your entire company, every driver you have, everyone in the company, you can push it out and train them the same way you train everyone else. So it is something that doesn't cost you any time, doesn't cost you any money, and could literally save a life. I wanna thank everybody for listening. Like I said, thank you so much Lexi. This I, I truly do enjoy talking with you. I look forward to a day that we have nothing left to talk about'cause it's all been solved, but I know there's still lots of work to do. So really appreciate you coming on and to all our listeners. Like I said, get involved, learn more, and we will see you all on the next episode of the Ground Transportation Podcast.

1:10:50

Thank you for listening to the ground transportation podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe to the show on apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information about PAX training and to contact James, go to PAX training.com. And for more information about driving transactions and to contact Ken, Go to driving transactions.com. We'll see you next time on the ground transportation podcast.