Michael Gaddis: 0:00

Folks in the insurance business say that every account's rated on its own merit. But a lot of times that's not true. sometimes groups are thrown into buckets, We try not to do that. there's some external factors that industries cannot, control, jury verdicts, cost of litigation, claims costs. Of course, when those things go up, rates tend to go up little bit for the whole, pot of operators.

James Blain: 0:47

Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Ground Train Station podcast. I am really excited about my guest today. I'm a little sad. I don't have my partner in crime. My, you know, other half my Ken Lucci. I am sure he is no doubt doing an incredibly large deal that will revolutionize the industry, maybe even riding in an autonomous vehicle. Who knows? But I'm super stoked about our guest. So we have talked a lot about insurance this year. It's been one of the hottest topics and it is going to be one of the big things that I think is going to continue to year after year, be something that doesn't go away. So I'm really excited at Michael Gaddis from the cable insurance company with me. He's their VP of operations. And I gotta tell you, I talk to a lot of people in insurance and I think Michael has got a really incredible background and I think he's gonna bring a lot of perspective. Uh, Michael, thanks for coming on the podcast, man.

Michael Gaddis: 1:41

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me on James.

James Blain: 1:44

Hey. No, I, I'm excited. You guys are very different. We talk about a lot of the, you know, a lot of the major legacy carriers. Tell me a little bit about your background.'cause your story and kinda the way that cable comes to be is not the typical backstory. What does that kind of look like? Where do you guys come from? How do you come to the mix? Kind of give me, gimme the backstory a little bit.

Michael Gaddis: 2:06

Yeah, so the holding company, was started in 1959. So my grandfather was in Virginia, had come down to Florida. brother had a service station here in Fort Lauderdale, elk gas station. Have loaned money to a cab driver,

James Blain: 2:20

Okay.

Michael Gaddis: 2:20

took his medallion. And you know, throughout the years, I mean throughout the, the sixties started acquiring more and more taxi cabs. Here in Fort Lauderdale is, Fort Lauderdale was growing. And eventually had turned Yellow Cab into what it is or what it turned into before the Uber Revolution. And he had at one point owned, uh, the largest bus company in the south southeastern United States. Had taxi cab fleets here in Fort Lauderdale, Tallahassee Philadelphia, among some other cities. and we also ran a black car service with 120, limousines, airport shuttles. but he had always been involved, the risk business as well, you know, owning a fleet that large insurance is a large cost, had an offshore captive, had an insurance company at one point and sold it. so fast forward to 2000 and 18. He was 86 years old and decided that he wanted to start another insurance company.

James Blain: 3:22

Another insurance company. So he'd already done it once. He's doing it again.

Michael Gaddis: 3:25

Yeah.

James Blain: 3:26

Love it.

Michael Gaddis: 3:27

And most guys when they're 86 wanna be sitting on a beach somewhere, you know, drinking a martini or something, but,

James Blain: 3:33

He's, he's already in Florida, right? Like just pick one, like he just literally pick a beach. Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 3:39

But, so unfortunately he passed away in 2019 a year after the company was founded. And we were right. And at the time, you know, we were a startup carrier, around 2 million in premium, and we wanted to focus on the transportation industry. That's what we knew. our transportation, transportation companies here have always adjusted their own claims. So we had a claims team. so we brought in, um, some underwriting minds, president at the time. And you know, now in 2025 or the past six years. we've slowly developed our program. It's something that we did not want to grow too quickly and burn ourselves. so we've been on an upward trajectory. so right now we're writing around 50 million in premium in Florida and have some expansion plans to other states in the next five years.

James Blain: 4:28

Well, and tell me a little bit, like, I think your story also matters a lot too, right? Because you know, we could probably do three or four episodes on the life of your grandfather, right? Just that, all of that stuff. But you know, as interesting as it is, we're kind of an older guy type of industry, right? Our average age, and this industry is higher. And so I think a lot of operators would see and say, Hey, you know what, Michael's one of the young guys, he's one of the kids in the industry. I think, uh, frankly, I mean, I'm with Ken every day. Ken reminds me that I am just a kid in his eyes. So I think we're both kinda on that spectrum, but what does that look like coming into your grandfather's legacy, knowing that's, I mean obviously you're serving as the VP of Ops. What's kind of your path in? How do you kind of line up with that point where the insurance company gets put together?

Michael Gaddis: 5:15

sure. So, you know, throughout high school and and college, I spent summers with my dad on the taxi cab lot, you know, doing every job you can think of, inspecting cars replacing radio equipment in the vehicles. you know, at the time this was pretty Uber and, you know, I, career-wise, you know, yellow Cab seemed like a pretty good, business to get into. When I was actually in, it was beginning of my college or at the end of my college life. That's when Uber really

James Blain: 5:46

Took off.

Michael Gaddis: 5:46

app based companies came and took off and. So after I had graduated college in 2018 down here at FAU in, in Boca Raton, it was soon thereafter that insurance company was, was talked about being formed. So a natural progression for me and my career path, you know, I figure if the transportation, or especially the taxi industry with the future of it would be a little murky. you know, learning the insurance businesses, you know, was very exciting to me at the time. And you know, obviously I'm very happy I I did that and I could see where, you know, how far we've come today. You know, I originally start, we were a direct carrier to start, so we didn't work with any brokers or agents.

James Blain: 6:30

So talk about that for a second. Right. And I, and I know the, the insurance world gets extremely complicated, extremely fast. Tell me a little bit like. There's direct carrier, what does that kind of mean? What are the different types? How does all of that work?

Michael Gaddis: 6:44

Sure. So when we started, we were a direct carrier, which essentially means the broker and agent function exists within our company.

James Blain: 6:53

Okay.

Michael Gaddis: 6:54

we did not use any independent agents to go out and sell our product. you know, as far from the insured standpoint, you go to an agent or broker, they can quote you out with five different companies. If you go to a direct carrier, they're just gonna give you their quote.

James Blain: 7:08

Right. It's kinda like calling up Progressive on the regular side. Right. If you call up Progressive and get a quote, they're gonna write your insurance right there. You guys had, yeah, exactly. Okay.

Michael Gaddis: 7:18

but, you know, we had made the change in 2020, about a year or two after the company was founded to go the independent agent route. part of that is back office stuff in here. There's a lot of functions in here that we would, we didn't want to be dealing with that in independent agents do,

James Blain: 7:35

Yeah,

Michael Gaddis: 7:35

the good professional operators, you know, rely on good agents to go out and market themselves. So we weren't getting the opportunities of the prestigious accounts that we would've gotten if we were just direct. You know, and one thing that we emphasize here at Cable, and I've seen it time and time again, is from an operator standpoint, it's best not to go to an agent and your hometown that sells life insurance and homeowner's insurance

James Blain: 8:04

what you mean?

Michael Gaddis: 8:05

transportation insurance. But

James Blain: 8:07

I get this right? You're telling me the guy that writes my home policy knows nothing about commercial auto and shouldn't be riding my fleet. Look, that that's something we have, we have talked about time and time again, and I'd love to, to hear your take on it.'cause it's something we talk about a lot. I think that one of the things there, and we see it a lot, look, even I, I have a specialist that I work with at pacs where I have my insurance done because we're, we're a unique company, right? There's not anyone that does exactly what I do. And when you start getting into those little areas, you've gotta have someone that knows your business, that understands your business, that understands the background, that understands what you do. You know, I wouldn't work with an agent that wasn't familiar with my industry, right? If they don't know the transportation industry, if they don't know my customers, if they don't know what I do, they're not gonna be a good fit. How big a difference do you think that really makes? Because we hear it all the time. Go with a specialist. But, but if you had to measure that, how big a difference are you gonna feel going to someone like that?

Michael Gaddis: 9:04

well, I, I can tell you just from our standpoint here at Cable, we have a limited distribution structure.

James Blain: 9:10

Okay.

Michael Gaddis: 9:10

don't, we don't appoint and we have independent agents that come to us every day looking for appointments. you know, we have less than 20 agencies appointed, in Florida. mean, there's thousands and thousands of agencies here. but when you're working with a specialist, you know, they'll tell the story to us, to the underwriter. they know that we trust that agent. You know, we get Joe Schmo agent coming in, sending us a submission. you know, do we trust that? Does the underwriter trust that it may be a great account, maybe a great operator, but, uh, there's no relationship there, from a ground transportation operator. You want to go to agents to have those relationships with carriers that know the underwriters that can tell your story in a trustworthy manner, where the underwriter, not, not necessarily that they're gonna give you a cheaper price, but if they're kind of tiptoeing the line, they may lean your way.

James Blain: 10:01

Well, and, and look, I've seen that happen. I remember, you know, and, and you see it in financials, you see it in insurance, you see it all the time. I remember I was making a, a purchase, I was buying a vehicle and you know, it was a time when it was really hard to get financing. And I had a good friend that worked at the dealership and, he got back that it was kind of a maybe and he picks up the phone and he calls the guy and he says, Hey. I send you business every day and when I know it's iffy, I'll tell you it's iffy. When I know they're good, it's good. This is someone that I know personally. This is someone that I've worked with. I understand all their financials, all their everything. If you're on the line, you work with me enough, I can tell you that you're good to go and you tell me what else you need. And the whole conversation at that point changed because they had that rapport, they understood the backstory. And so I can completely see where if you've got someone where you've got that trusted broker that you guys work with, you can kind of have that moment of them with like, Hey, you know, let, let's get real. Are they really doing what they need to be doing? Are they really a risk? I can totally see that influencing. Now that brings up another really good question that I hear all the time, and that's how much of underwriting is just, I'm looking at a piece of paper. I'm gonna look at two things. I'm gonna pick a number, I'm gonna look at your address and pick a number. How much of it gets influenced by things like safety programs by things like how your fleet's set up, by, you know, the reputation. How much of that kind of comes into play when you guys are doing underwriting?

Michael Gaddis: 11:28

Uh, it'd be hard to put, it'd be hard for me to put a percentage on it, but I will tell you it does matter. You know, we, we look at loss runs all the time. just because a guy had a policy limits claim, does that make him a bad operator? You know, we don't really think so. You know, we, with our larger accounts, we, we do try to have relationships with them other than just the broker and the insured having the relationship. that does matter to us. we have a risk control, uh, manager here that runs out to most, if not all of our large accounts. And you know, someone has a bad claim, what do they do? Do they fire the driver? You know, sometimes that, maybe that's not always the best thing either. you know, what are they doing to, enhance their safety? What are they doing with telematics? You know, all these things. When you throw'em all into the pot, it kind of into the price. So, you know, that's kind of a long-winded of saying that everything matters a little bit.

James Blain: 12:23

Spoken like a true insurance guy. I love it. No, I think you bring up a good point, and I think it's, I, I gotta tell you, I, I don't envy what you and your team do. Because every day you guys have gotta try and somewhat try and predict the future. And so I also have a lot of respect in that even though you guys are operating only in Florida right now, you guys have been very involved with the Florida Limousine Association. you guys have been very involved locally. You guys are doing a lot of work in terms of outreach, in terms of safety. I know that, that you and I have have said on the, the Safety committee and, and Florida working on things together. So I think there's a lot to be said there about what you guys are doing. And I also think that there's gonna be a lot of really excited people as soon as you guys start to expand outside of the state of Florida. So kind of in that general vein and kind of along those lines, what does it look like in terms of, and we've heard a lot of talk about this. What does it look like in terms of who you're insuring, what are kind of the industries that you guys insure? And then most importantly, because I've heard this talked about a lot. How does you know if, if you're working in one segment of pasture transportation and you see a lot of claims go up there, is that gonna impact another segment? How does that kind of work? Well.

Michael Gaddis: 13:36

I mean, potentially, you know, you, you'll hear some. Folks in the insurance business say that every account's rated on its own merit. But a lot of times that's not true. Sometimes groups are thrown into buckets, right? You know, we try not to do that. there's some external factors that industries cannot control, you know, jury verdicts, cost of litigation, claims costs. Of course, when those things go up, rates tend to go up little bit for the whole, for the pot of operators. you know, the characteristics of each account that determines, you know, even, even if the rate, there's rate increases across the board on, you know, x, y, z carrier or

James Blain: 14:19

Right.

Michael Gaddis: 14:20

or whatever, we may raise some, you know, x amount, some y amount depending on, you know, the characteristics of the insured.

James Blain: 14:28

Well, and I, I think there's something to be said there as well about just kind of what we've seen in terms of cost in general. We are seeing across the board that vehicle costs, repair costs, you know, all of those things are, are kind of going up. And so I think it's one of those things where the, the hard part is you've gotta kind of adjust and go to that. And look, I'll tell you right now, I mean, I, I hear it from, you know, my wife, I see it when I go to the grocery store with her, right? Costs are still slowly creeping up. You know, shrink deflation is probably my favorite family joke, right? We go, we go to the store and something is more expensive, and then you look at the bottom of it and they've like put a big bump in the bottom and you're getting less and paying more. So I think we're seeing it across everywhere, but I do think that there is, I, I don't wanna call it kind of a perspective, but. I feel like there's a thought that there's a lot of operators out there that feel like they've been doing things right and they're still seeing cost go up. And, and I'll share with you one of the nice things that I've heard about cable is that you guys have pretty competitive rates. you guys are, are able to be competitive. Now, I know that anybody listening to this outside of the state of Florida is, is super excited to hear what that'll look like when they get to them. But as an insurance company, how are you able to be competitive? Is, is it because that you're specializing kind of in this one area or what is it that kind of allows you guys to do that, that makes you different there?

Michael Gaddis: 17:09

Yeah, that helps. you know, and, and being a smaller insurance company in the grand scheme of things, you know, we, we do run lean we cut out unnecessary costs when we can. Uh, we don't, you know, we don't have a bunch of bloated, rent payments or, or salaries or people that shouldn't on board. you know, all of those things. Just like a small transportation operator, right? They're looking at their dollars and cents, maybe a little bit more than a, a national transportation company. You know, in some respects. so that helps. know, we are very aggressive with our claims handling. You know, we try to get stuff settled as quickly as possible. given the circumstances, you know, some stuff, you know, when they get an attorney and, you know, we fight those too. but our president here, his name is Steven Sims, our president, and CEO you know, he always says if our claims expenses are higher and our bodily injury payouts are lower, he's a happy guy. in the long run, you know, plaintiff attorneys sometimes can try to be bullies and send you a demand in for your policy limits of a million

James Blain: 18:15

Oh yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 18:16

and this person has a traumatic brain injury, et cetera, et cetera. You know, those are the claims that, you know, on the expense side that it's not that expenses don't matter, but we will spend. To, fight those claims, fight frivolous and fraudulent litigation in the long run that attorney gets ano very similar case. You know, they may not push it as hard the next time. So,

James Blain: 18:39

Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 18:39

feel like being aggressive in especially those high limit, high damages cases where we feel that exaggerated, help us and, but overall help the industry.'cause it helps us keep rates as low as we can here in the state of Florida.

James Blain: 18:55

Well, and it, it's funny that you say that because you know, I, I gotta tell you, when it comes to the plaintiff's attorneys, my father-in-law lived in Florida, and his favorite thing to say was, I got an accident. I got me a million dollars. Right. That was, that was always the running joke. And, and I said, oh, who are you gonna call? And he goes, it doesn't matter. Just pick a billboard. Right? And literally he would tell stories about driving down 95. He was out in Boca and he'd say, Hey, driving 95 in Miami, it was just like plaintiff's attorney, right? Injury attorney. Injury attorney, injury attorney. They're everywhere. And I think to a certain extent, they've kind of figured out. That they can push that as hard as they want. You know, it's, it's a bit funny and I'll try to keep this pg, but you know, I, I heard about an accident where it was an 80-year-old man who got in the accident and they were like, oh, he's lost this, he's lost that, that he's lost the abi ability to lay with his wife and they can't be intimate with his wife. And I'm like, man, two things. One, when I'm 80, I want to be that guy. Hey, hey, rooting for you. That's, that's the point of your lawsuit, right? I've lost the Mia with my wife'cause,'cause I had the accident. But two, I think we've almost hit the point of the ridiculous, right. It's anything they're, they're kind of throwing that pasta at the wall and anything that sticks, they'll go with. Now that said, I know that there's been some tort reform in the state of Florida. Can you tell us a little bit about the tort reform and how that's impacted the insurance business and the operators out there?

Michael Gaddis: 20:17

Tort reform a hot topic of discussion in the insurance circles, of course, for many years. Florida was come out with the judicial hellhole list every year.

James Blain: 20:29

I am very familiar.

Michael Gaddis: 20:31

and it's, it's, it's actually called the judicial hell

James Blain: 20:34

So, so real quick ex, explain that for a second. And, and, and maybe I should have done a better job kinda lead us in what's, what's the judicial hellhole list, and then more importantly, what's, what's tort reform?

Michael Gaddis: 20:43

so there's various bar associations and defense bar associations, and they come out with lists on. Counties or states or cities that jury verdicts are in excess of, what they should be. And Florida one of'em for a long time, for various reasons. But get into the tort reform that passed in 23. And what that did is before there'd be a car accident,

James Blain: 21:12

Yep.

Michael Gaddis: 21:12

limo guy hits somebody million dollar policy limit. You know, that's like the golden ticket for a plaintiff's attorney client comes in, they're used to seeing$10,000 limit cases, or the person has no insurance or whatever the case is.

James Blain: 21:26

What people in Florida with no insurance. No way.

Michael Gaddis: 21:29

what the third of our drivers

James Blain: 21:30

Yeah, let, let's not talk about bald tires in the rain either.

Michael Gaddis: 21:34

but uh, you know, on a$10,000 policy limit case, that lawyer's getting 33 40%. So he's making three, four grand

James Blain: 21:41

Oh,

Michael Gaddis: 21:41

that case. know, he gets a million dollar, policy limit you know, he's telling that client Go treat, you know,

James Blain: 21:49

yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 21:49

bills. Right? And then they, then we get a demand in with half a million dollar worth of medical bills are all over Bill in some cases.

James Blain: 21:59

Well, and there's a whole side industry there too, right? That's one of the things that I know we've talked about before is. These plaintiff's attorneys have like their own short list of medical providers and people they, I mean, they know exactly how to rack that bill up and because it's public knowledge, they know your policy limit. Right. They know how much they're going for.

Michael Gaddis: 22:18

Yeah. Within 30 days here we have to give'em a disclosure on our policy limits. but what tort reform did do is, uh, before they could go in front of a jury and put whatever numbers they want, know, an x-ray, they would say, cost$12,000, for example.

James Blain: 22:35

Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 22:35

when tort reform passed, now it's 125% of Medicare rates. we're able to argue that and

James Blain: 22:42

Okay.

Michael Gaddis: 22:43

you know, that x-ray is not$12,000, that x-ray is worth two grand or whatever.

James Blain: 22:49

Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 22:49

now the comparative negligence standard changed

James Blain: 22:53

What's, what's that? Tell, tell me for, let's stop real quick right there. What is comparative? That's a super fancy term. What's the, what's kind of the layman's version of that?

Michael Gaddis: 24:07

Sure. So, you know, before 2023, uh, an operator could be 10% at fault for the accident and still get hit with 10% of that claim. So if it's

James Blain: 24:17

Okay.

Michael Gaddis: 24:17

dollar claim and, and the operator, the limo operator's 10% at fault, or the jury deems them 10% at fault, or whatever the case is, they still owe a hundred thousand dollars on that claim.

James Blain: 24:27

And the other person doesn't owe the 90%. Right. It's just they get away scot free and the limo operator has to pay the 10%. So it's a double standard in a sense. Right?

Michael Gaddis: 24:37

yeah. Now with the, modified comparative negligence that was included with the 23 tort reform, if the plaintiff that is, claiming injuries or files a lawsuit or what, whatever, if they're 51% or more at fault, they can't recover anything.

James Blain: 24:51

Okay.

Michael Gaddis: 24:52

Right? So,

James Blain: 24:54

How big of the fights been over that 1%? I gotta imagine they're fighting tooth and nail for that. Right?

Michael Gaddis: 24:59

yeah, I mean, you know, before I think, plaintiff's attorneys were a little more aggressive.'cause I, you know, I think at least we'll get something out

James Blain: 25:08

Right.

Michael Gaddis: 25:08

Now, it's a little bit more risk if the plaintiff's attorney has to hire, you know, they gotta pay for their doctors, they gotta pay court costs and all that. Do they really wanna do that? If they're gonna get zipped at trial? Probably not.

James Blain: 25:20

Now, are most of those attorneys on contingency? Is that, kind of the way that they're operating? Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 25:24

I mean, 99.9% of, personal injury attorneys here in Florida, they're, they'll take 33, I think it's 33% or something, uh, pre-suit of the client settlement, uh, gets into suit. They'll usually take 40.

James Blain: 25:40

Okay, so there, so, and, and I'd, I'd love to hear how it actually panned out. So I feel like, you know, if you run a contingency business, and I actually at one point I wasn't a, a, a business owner of a contingency business. When you only get paid, if you are successful and you know, your chances of being successful go down, it's gonna really make you think twice. Did you guys see a reduction in the number of lawsuits? And then most importantly, did you guys see that payout come down? Is this something where you guys got the desired outcome?

Michael Gaddis: 26:11

you know, funny enough, There was a spike in 2023, of

James Blain: 26:15

Really?

Michael Gaddis: 26:15

before the tort tort

James Blain: 26:17

Oh, they're trying to get it all in? Yep.

Michael Gaddis: 26:19

were, I mean, you could Google the insurance journal or whatever website you wanted to use, but

James Blain: 26:24

Ah,

Michael Gaddis: 26:24

was, uh, hundreds of thousands of lawsuits filed in March of 23.

James Blain: 26:29

jeez.

Michael Gaddis: 26:29

So you wanna talk about claims costs 23, you'll, you'll see a lot of claims costs

James Blain: 26:34

Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 26:34

us and with most carriers. but, you know, after, after that had settled down, you know, we are hoping and we think starting to see severity, decrease or stay flat at least,

James Blain: 26:48

Yep.

Michael Gaddis: 26:48

for now, so when I talk severity, I'm talking the average cost of the injury claim. but you know, still a little early, to say, you know, non-economic damages is, a hot topic as well here in Florida.'cause those were not capped

James Blain: 27:04

What are non-economic damages? That's another, an interesting, legally stern. Okay. Yeah. Not, I, I, I immediately think of that 80-year-old, right? That's all. I can't be intimate with my wife type stuff.

Michael Gaddis: 27:15

Yeah, no, so,

James Blain: 27:16

I'm sure there's more to it than that, but, but that's gonna be the go-to for me.

Michael Gaddis: 27:19

before when they were allowed to board, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of medical bills and say, this is what it costs. They, they didn't need to argue pain. I mean, they did, they did argue pain and suffering, but,

James Blain: 27:29

But only to get it up to the policy limit. Right? Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 27:33

or, or exceed it.

James Blain: 27:34

Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 27:35

exceed it. You know, I, I think every, every trial we've taken, or every case we've taken to trial this year, they've asked for over$2 million. I don't think we've had a trial where they've asked for

James Blain: 27:44

Wow.

Michael Gaddis: 27:44

million to the, to the jury.

James Blain: 27:46

Now, now I'm gonna ask you a hard question and, and, and that's how successful did they ever pull it off? Is, is my bigger question.

Michael Gaddis: 27:54

You know, we,

James Blain: 27:56

Hopefully the answer's no, but

Michael Gaddis: 27:57

I don't wanna say we've been lucky'cause we think we're pretty good at what we do, but

James Blain: 28:01

part scale, part luck,

Michael Gaddis: 28:02

yeah, yeah. We're not perfect, you know, not every trial goes the way that, that we would like,

James Blain: 28:08

right?

Michael Gaddis: 28:09

You know, we're winning in around 70% of our cases that we take to trial.

James Blain: 28:13

How many of those would you say are frivolous, right? I mean, obviously. You know, we're, we're in an industry where, you know, you're gonna have accidents, things are gonna happen, right? unfortunately, that's kind of the nature of the industry you're in. My whole life, my whole existence as a trainer is to try and get that to zero. But we know that accidents happen on the road. How many of those, because, you know, we, we, we had an episode where we filmed in the past where we were looking at, you know, fraudulent ones, guys cutting in front of buses, slamming on brakes, you know, people running into the back of limos and saying that, you know, the person stopped short. How many of those do you think were frivolous or scam, or just shouldn't have even gotten that far?

Michael Gaddis: 28:55

you know, we like to say that in 70, 80% of claims there's at least some element of dishonesty or fraud. But is it true? You know, I, I don't know. But, you know, we don't see too many of those where they'll go and stop in front on purpose and get hit. Like we, we see'em here and there. it's really the, the inflation of the bills

James Blain: 29:16

Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 29:16

and the exaggeration of the injuries, that's where people really get hit.

James Blain: 29:20

Okay.

Michael Gaddis: 29:21

and, and it, it, it's difficult sometimes, you know, we, we, we will have accidents where, know, the plaintiff or, you know, whoever the operator has, will be somebody in their twenties or thirties without. any medical history now they're claiming herniated discs'cause et

James Blain: 29:36

Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 29:36

And if, you know, if we don't have a doctor to be able to point to something going back that it came from, you know, we're stuck between a rock and a hard place

James Blain: 29:44

Yeah. Well, and, and. Look, I, I mean, here's the thing. I still haven't broke 40 yet in terms of age, but I still remember as a kid, you'd watch the sitcoms and the guy would get in a tiny little accident, and the, it was, it was almost the cartoon, it was back then, it was the neck brace. Like I remember anytime there's any kinda injury, the, the guy or gal is in a wheelchair, they've got one leg up, they've got the neck brace on. And then the joke is that as soon as the court case is over and it's awarded, they hop outta the chair and walk out. You know, and, and I will share, you know, a, a friend of mine, Dan Reed, who's on the NEMT side, he's the, the president over at TTA, in 2025. Look, Dan shares a story all the time where they had a small fender bender accident. We're talking like no big deal. And they actually had on camera. the guy in the back of the vehicle, they had one pastor on board, if I remember correctly, and the guy picks up the phone and calls somebody and goes, oh man, I just hit the jackpot, man. This guy got this little tiny injury. I'm getting paid. It's gonna be huge. and I've talked about this before, we have this lottery ticket mentality that if I am in some kind of injury case, and I, genuinely believe that a lot of this comes from the fact that a lot of these people, you know, they're not business owners. They don't know business owners. They don't think like that, but they just assume that because you know, oh, they're a big huge insurance company. Oh, this big large company, it's just gonna write me a check and go away and I'm gonna be rich. And I think there's a genuine problem have you seen that change at all with tort reform? Or is it more of just reigning in the actual costs they're allowed to claim?'cause it do, it doesn't sound like, if I'm understanding right, it doesn't sound like it's capped it. Right. They can still go for above policy limits. Right. It is just harder to get there.

Michael Gaddis: 31:28

yeah. Right. So before, with, with the inflated bills and so forth, that's what they would use. But now, you know, pain and suffering's, unc caved,

James Blain: 31:36

Okay, so that's where they're now. Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 31:40

their backs hurt, their neck hurt every single day for the rest of their life is worth, you know,$30 worth of pain. And you add all that up and you get the two,$3 million.

James Blain: 31:50

Right,

Michael Gaddis: 31:51

you know, some states have capped the non-economic, damages, the pain and suffering. and sometimes that can be a crapshoot. what's a jury gonna do? Nobody

James Blain: 31:59

right.

Michael Gaddis: 32:00

you know? So, you know, if the plaintiff attorney can get up there and tell a good story, you know, sometimes shit happens.

James Blain: 32:08

look, we, we, yeah, exactly. I mean, we could do a whole episode on reptile theory, which is one of my absolute, we'll, we'll have to do an episode with that with our attorney at some point, right? You've got reptile theory and all these other strategies, and I, I genuinely believe that a lot of this is kind of that ambulance chaser that we thought of, kind of started to figure out that we could be a target, and so we kind of saw that come over to our side.

Michael Gaddis: 32:31

But to answer your question, we haven't seen necessarily a downtick in people, calling one 800 pain or

James Blain: 32:38

Yeah,

Michael Gaddis: 32:39

referral services are to get an attorney. So

James Blain: 32:43

so the claims are still there. It's just more reigned in on what they can claim.

Michael Gaddis: 32:47

yeah, it, it

James Blain: 32:49

No pun intended.

Michael Gaddis: 32:50

it is, but we know, we'll see, we'll see. Uh, you know, the. The plaintiff's bar is, uh, one of the largest, financiers of politicians here in the state of Florida too. So,

James Blain: 33:01

That's convenient.

Michael Gaddis: 33:02

you every year they've been trying to roll back parts of it, and I'm sure at some point they'll get some of it rolled back. But,

James Blain: 33:08

what year was that put in place?

Michael Gaddis: 33:10

uh, March of 23, DeSantis had signed it into, into Law.

James Blain: 33:14

Okay. I mean, look, I, I gotta tell you, I think, I think one of the things, and I, I've seen it in my professional career, you see it in everyday life. A lot of times it comes down to just a first step being taken, right? And so I think, at least in my mind, that's a huge win. to know that there's a problem, to get some kind of step taken in the state, I think is huge.

Michael Gaddis: 33:38

Yeah. So, talk about the tort tax and

James Blain: 33:42

What is the tort tax?

Michael Gaddis: 33:44

so, you know, it's kind, it's kind of a, a term that's thrown around, but you know, when people go out and, uh, as you say, the ambulance chasers

James Blain: 33:54

Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 33:55

or, or whatever, an attorney and, know, even if it's a frivolous or fraudulent claim and, you know, we fight it and we may win, we still have lots of costs associated with that

James Blain: 34:06

Oh yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 34:07

side. you know, and all that adds up to unfortunately, for us to stay here and be in business, you know, rates need to go up, so.

James Blain: 34:17

Now, let me ask you then, with that, now that we've, we've brought up rates going up, the numbers that I've heard have kind of fluctuated. I think, I think a year over year rise in five to 15%, you know, is, is kind of what I've seen. Do you see us going into a period where. You know, obviously 26 is here, but you know, do you see 27, 28, 29, 30 being better? Do you see us kind of an upper twin? Is there anything that you guys are specifically watching or that it's tied to? I'll give you a great example. When I was my father-in-law who by the way is, is a small business owner. Everybody on the podcast probably hears me talk about him all the time. We'll have to have Ralph on sometime. But my father-in-law is in the ag business. and he's had a small business most of his life. And in their world, one of the things that they trend and chart is the price of corn. The price of corn controls a lot of what happens there. Is there anything like that in your world that you would say, Hey, these are kind of the indicators, this is kind of what we think is gonna dictate the next four to five years. Is there anything like that that you see and what, and, and I guess what's kind of your outlook in the next four to five years?

Michael Gaddis: 35:29

Well, you know, of course we keep track of. A lot of things and the economy affects us just like anyone else. I mean, people maybe don't think it does'cause people still need to buy insurance, but you know, a lot of our model, like every other insurance company is on our investments, right? And, if you look at combined ratios from the commercial auto carriers, they're I mean, what 70, 80% of'em are over a hundred

James Blain: 35:57

Oh

Michael Gaddis: 35:57

combined ratio, which means there's, the amount of money they're taking in, they're paying out just as much, if not more in claims. And they're making money off the flow to that money. Maybe a little bit of interest, but if even that,

James Blain: 36:09

yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 36:10

so, you know, we call it a hard market where rates continue to go up and commercial auto has been a hard market where rates have continued to go up, for the last, what, 10 to 15 years. not, not just from our view here at Cable, but going to industry events and, and, and conferences and, talking to other folks around the country. I, I haven't spoken to anyone unfortunately where they think, uh, the end is in site where rates are going to, go down,

James Blain: 36:38

Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 36:39

or even flat. I mean, you know, in some cases they, they may flatten out a little bit. but as far as rates, what they were five years ago, you know, I'm not so sure in the next five years we'll ever get down to those levels.

James Blain: 36:51

Well, and I, think one of the things you've brought up is the economy. And I think one of the things that's, really important to note and, and we've, we see it even in at fast food, right? You know, I grew up in the era of, I remember going to Taco Bell with my dad and getting the 49 cent tacos, right? And I remember the dollar menu. I think the dollar menu, like you, I, if you have kids, you know this, right? Anybody that has kids is gonna immediately be like, yeah, you're telling me. Or even if you've gone to fast food, right? The dollar menu is dead. Right. The prices have gone up dramatically and I don't see them kind of coming back down. And I think one of the things that we've seen is a lot of times when these prices go up, a lot of times they tend to go up and stay up. And even if they come back down. It's, it's not as common for them to come down to those original levels. I don't expect in the next four to five years to see the return of the dollar menu anywhere. I don't expect, you know, in, in any kind of insurance market that we're gonna get to, you know, pre COVID levels. But I do think we are at a point where, we do really need some kind of, of way to get ahead of that. Now, let me ask you, as someone that, you know, you've grown up around the transportation business, it's in your blood, right? Your, your grandfather was doing it. what in your opinion, is going to be able to drive, bringing that down? What, in your opinion, obviously it sounds like tort reform's been successful. What does that look like? You know, I know at one point, when we were doing Day on the Hill for the NLA, they were asking for a national task force. as someone who's in the industry, what do you think is gonna move the needle ultimately?

Michael Gaddis: 38:28

You know, that's an open, that's, it's, it's, there's a lot. But you know, if I'm an operator, you know, in these associations, Florida Limousine Association, the NLA, uh, nmac, uh, which is the non-emergency medical, association, transportation Alliance, you know, I think. They're doing as good of a job as they can, getting the industry together and educating them how,

James Blain: 38:50

No.

Michael Gaddis: 38:51

they should get about safety as a whole. and I, I think a lot of operators have really done a fantastic job and we have some insureds that we, we go to and, you know, the, the gold standard of, of how to operate a business and you know, I think just continuing and getting the maybe some of the smaller operators too on board and you know, and really improving the way that they train their drivers pacs training a resource. Right?

James Blain: 39:19

But been saying it for 10 years. We'll say it for another 10, man.

Michael Gaddis: 39:23

I know everyone's probably tired of insurance guys and safety guys talking about cameras, but I can't stress the importance of cameras. You know, if you do, if, if we got the industry to do all

James Blain: 39:33

Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 39:34

Even with the billboard lawyers and whatever, you know, it provides us more resources to fight back. and you know, it's, it's, it's difficult when it's a very fragmented industry. You know, we understand that and getting all these guys together, to go after one cause and one goal. but I think just continuing to stress the importance of safety and cameras and telematics, and having operators, know, implement that. I think that in the long

James Blain: 40:04

Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 40:04

really help and at least if, if not lower rates, flat amount where, the rate increases and know, you know, and some of the larger accounts, the experience, know, you can show insurance companies, hey, look, you know, over this last five year period,'cause insurance companies always looking backwards.

James Blain: 40:20

Oh yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 40:21

They're not looking forwards just, just because you're doing something great today. If they look back and you have five years of, of horrible losses, it's, it's gonna be a tough sell. So, and I think insurers need to have, or I hope that they have a little patience with, with us in the insurance industry to, them and, you know, and make rates in a way and where we can stay in business as well.

James Blain: 40:45

Well, and I, I think you've hit upon several really important things and it sounds like, you know, you kind of are in a similar place to a conclusion. I came to, one of my biggest aha moments of 2025 was kind of what you were saying about a fragmented industry. when I think about the ground transportation industry, the passenger ground transportation industry, I kind of think of it as a huge highway, right? Like, you know, think of one of those massive highways out in New Jersey, one of those massive highways out in California, and you've got all these different lanes. You've got the bus guys in one lane, you've got your limo guys in one lane, you've got any mt in one lane, you've got taxi in another lane. You've got kind of all these lanes. And what I find is we're all kind of on this big highway together, and we deal with a lot of the same problems, a lot of the same issues, insurance drivers training. All of these pieces are all the same. But what I find, and I saw this this year when I went to DC with the NLA and with the TTA, A lot of times when they're going to ask, they're coming from their lane and they're asking from the view of their lane. And I think that one of the biggest things that will revolutionize being able to get things done is if we were able to say, Hey, we're gonna get everybody's piece across the lane. Figure out what we all agree is the problem all go ask for it together. Right. I think of, you know, within a month you had the motor coach guys, you had the limo guys, you had the NEMT and the taxi guys, right?'cause you had U-M-A-N-L-A and TTA all in Washington within a month of each other. But they all asked for insurance, but they all had a different plan for it. Right. I think if they would've been able to say, here's a plan and have that message heard over and over, that would've been huge. But I also think you've hit on something equally important, right? You've gotta think 10,000 foot and then you gotta think down on the ground. You as an individual operator have to have your own house in order. And you mentioned, you mentioned cameras, so I know you know, from what I understand, you guys have pretty early adoption on cameras. Can you tell me a bit about what you guys did with that and how that kind of worked?

Michael Gaddis: 42:57

Yeah. So we do require cameras and all the vehicles we

James Blain: 43:00

So require, right, not, not recommend, you guys require it. That's great.

Michael Gaddis: 43:06

we keep track of that through risk control, some other things. But, you know, just throwing a camera in the car you know, showing us what happened after the accident, it helps, you know, we can get on a claim quickly or whatever the case is. If, we know we're at fault and we're, if we know we're not at fault, we can, can adjust accordingly. uh, the real reason we want the cameras in there is improving driver behavior

James Blain: 43:29

Yep.

Michael Gaddis: 43:29

uh, that's why we really encourage insurers to get systems like Samsara or Lytic or Raven, just to name a few as an example. To really have a, a, culture of safety, right. Train your drivers, you know, just don't, if they throw the camera in the car, sometimes that camera may show stuff you, you don't really want on camera.

James Blain: 43:50

Oh, all the time.

Michael Gaddis: 43:51

it's more the, the practice of having cameras and the culture and the, and the train used with the cameras. Not so much just having the camera in the car.

James Blain: 44:01

Well, and one of the things, and I, I've talked about this. I've done webinars, I've done live sessions, I've done trainings in person. You know, I really kind of look at it as, you gotta really treat your team like a sports team. And I, I'd love to get your thought on this and your opinion, because the way I see ourselves at PACS is we are really bringing them into the right culture, setting the right culture. We are the practice, we are the ongoing, we are that piece that makes sure they know exactly what to do and how to do it. Where I always look at that handoff is as a coach, imagine, and, and, and this is kind of a great way to think about it, imagine if you had a coach. That trained the hell out of a team, but didn't actually go to any of the games. And so they're like, no, I'm not gonna go to the games. I'm not gonna watch any of the games. Well, what's gonna happen? That coach is never gonna be able to adapt the practice. That coach is never gonna know what they actually did. He's not gonna know what's working, what isn't working. But you also have, you know, the opposite side of that. Imagine if you had a coach that was like, all right, you guys have won before. You clearly know what you're doing. We're never gonna practice ever again, and we're only gonna do games and I'm just gonna coach you at the game and call it good. And oh, by the way, I'm not gonna be watching half the time. it sounds absolutely crazy, but what I found, and I'd love to get your opinion on this because I'm sure what, what you're gonna say will probably echo this. Most of the time I find that the biggest failures in our industry are never complex. Like advanced. It's always fundamental failures. And as a sports guy, right, as a hockey guy, as a coach, right? Having a son that plays, helping coaches team. It's so funny'cause I see it in the kids, right? It's never the super advanced thing. It's always the fundamentals that you really have to on a drive in. Do you guys see that? I mean is this kind of all line up with what you're seeing or do you guys see it a little differently?

Michael Gaddis: 45:55

No, I, I, no, absolutely. you know, we talked a little bit about cameras and, and PAX training. It's, it's all these little things that add up, like I said earlier, on the under in the underwriting side. You know, these are all just little things that all added together will help you reduce if you're an operator, your costs in the long run. You know, we insure a lot of, uh, medical transportation companies, uh, NEMT. Adult daycare stuff and, yeah, we've had, a small number of accounts over the past five years. They don't do any barely any training now. Their drivers aren't strapp people in properly. They're

James Blain: 46:32

Oh,

Michael Gaddis: 46:33

wheelchairs or whatever.

James Blain: 46:34

jeez.

Michael Gaddis: 46:35

what, you know, at, at the end of the day, accounts like that, we may not renew or raise their rate to a level where they can't afford it, and these guys end up going outta business. So really it's more of a survival thing. And I think there's a notion that the insurance companies are taking everybody's money and, you know, sitting back and not doing anything on the operator level. but, you know, our goal is to, to reduce rates or, or get'em at least flat for people. You know, we want people to stay in business, you know, those are our customers. we still have our transportation companies here in Fort Lauderdale that we insure through cable. And we, we try to. Do all the best practices and you know, I get it though. It, it, it's very difficult. It's very difficult.

James Blain: 47:16

Absolutely. And look, I mean, I, I've made it a point at Pax to really work to partner with insurance companies because at the end of the day, for me, I think there's, there's a couple things, and Ken has got this incredible quote, that the companies that invest in safety and training and that are actually putting the money in are the most profitable ones. Right. And it's, it's one of those things for me where I think. You know, there's always going to be cost in your business. It doesn't matter what you do, it doesn't matter how you operate. But I think there's this cycle that I've seen over and over and over, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep talking about this cycle till we can talk about it getting broken. But, you know, we almost have what I call the New Year's resolution cycle. Something goes wrong. Oh, we gotta fix our training program. Oh, we gotta do this. Oh, we gotta do that. And then they fix it. And then someone comes in six months later and goes, well, we haven't had an issue in like six months, or, we haven't had an issue in a year or a couple years. Why are we spending money on that? And what do they do? They take the money outta there. It's, it's the exact same as if you said, Hey, I'm gonna start going to the gym is my New Year's resolution. You get nine months in, you're jacked, right? You got the, you got the six pack, you got the arms, you're like, yeah, now that I'm jacked, I don't have to go to the gym anymore. It's not gonna be overnight, it's not gonna be a month later. But guess what? By the time New Year's comes around again. You're now losing all of that you put in, it's a constant battle to keep it there. And so I, let me ask you, we've talked a lot with brokers that have given us wonderful advice on how do you actually put your best foot forward. So if you are a company that's investing in safety, if you're using PACS training, if you're using cameras, if you're doing things right, getting them that information so they can share it with the underwriters so they can do that. What advice would you have for someone that is getting ready to or, or that is, you know, at a point where they are thinking about the next time that my insurance renewal comes around, I wanna be armed with the teeth, right? I want to have everything ready. I wanna be able to give it to'em. What advice do you have? And then kind of as a side question here. I've heard all kinds of arguments between should you try to go to multiple brokers? Do you get frowned on If more than one broker tries to, you know, quote from a company, can you talk to us and, and kind of close us out on that process?

Michael Gaddis: 49:42

Look, I on the broker issue, ideally we get information from one.

James Blain: 49:46

Okay.

Michael Gaddis: 49:47

we, we've had instances where one account will go to three or four different brokers. We get three or four different submissions, and they all say different things, you know, immediately that's a, that's a red flag,

James Blain: 49:57

Yeah. That, that does not instill confidence.

Michael Gaddis: 50:00

and it may not be the insured's fault, it may be the, the agent's fault,

James Blain: 50:04

Right.

Michael Gaddis: 50:04

but, uh, regardless it sets off alarm bells here and I'm sure it would for other insurance companies as well. So, you know, my advice to any operator would be to go to a, or use your current or find a trusted transportation broker and use them.

James Blain: 50:21

Okay.

Michael Gaddis: 50:21

you know, just to get back on the you know, claim sister incident. You know, we, I wanna give an example. We have, uh, we have had insured for a long time, is it does a lot of stretcher, transportation, medical transports, you know, had three or four stretcher falls within 18 months.

James Blain: 50:38

Whoa.

Michael Gaddis: 50:39

I think all of them, not, not all of'em, but most of'em were at policy limit, policy limit sets. Now know the guy got during the middle of this, got real serious about training, did everything he possibly could to put in samsara, telematics, et cetera. You know, we went out and visited him, worked with him, you know, now he's been a customer of ours for four or five years, and he is been fantastic. So, you know, I think, and part of that was the broker relationship too. The broker facilitating us to go visit him,

James Blain: 51:10

Yeah.

Michael Gaddis: 51:10

him visit his operations, see what he's doing,

James Blain: 51:13

We have lots of brokers that we work with that recommend us and bring us in, so that makes sense.

Michael Gaddis: 51:18

so a good broker, it, it can go a long way in

James Blain: 51:21

Wow.

Michael Gaddis: 51:21

cost and pricing and your relationship with the insurance company.

James Blain: 51:25

So let me ask you an interesting question there, just kinda along those lines, how quickly, right, and this is something I kind of know what I see, but what I found is it's typically not something you can turn around quickly. It takes time, it takes effort. You've gotta change the culture, you've gotta change the mindset. And a lot of times it means letting people go. And that's really tough for operators, especially when they're short staffed, getting people in the bandwagon. What would you say, like if someone's turning a company around, how long do you typically think it would take to get that turned around in terms of running that as a safe, effective company again?

Michael Gaddis: 52:05

You know, I, I can tell you from experience here at Yellow Cab, you know, many years we went without cameras. Didn't think they worked. Well, we had put'em in at one point, but they didn't have any driver modification type, technology in the

James Blain: 52:19

Right.

Michael Gaddis: 52:20

so got rid of the cameras. Uh, we got real serious about it. You know, just before Uber, as Uber was entering, costs were being cut and we wanted, we wanted, insurance was a large cost. But that culture of safety, we had a full-time guy on staff monitoring the lytic system, calling up our drivers when they would be speeding or on the telephone or whatever. You have signs everywhere in the office about safety. It's just a whole, it's not one thing, it's the whole culture of safety that really helped. And you know, we got real serious about training. Had a two day training program, full two day training program before these guys even got out on the road and they have to go out in the road with a current driver. So, and so how long it, it is tough to say exactly how long, but I think creating that culture and just, you know, put it in it in front of their face all the time, and, know, eventually it, it adds up and it, know, it creates what we want and what, what the operators want, you know?

James Blain: 53:17

A a hundred percent. And, and I, I always go back to that, that gym, right? That I think it's one of the best analogies because, you know, you see the people every year, they're like, oh, it's January. I'm gonna get a gym membership. Like, oh, two months. I'm not jacked. Like, it, it, you know, I, I see the same thing happen in our industry all the time is, oh, I'm gonna try something. Oh, well, I put it in for a month and it didn't work. Like, I think one of the big things here is you've gotta commit to it. You've gotta make it part of your core. You gotta make it part of what you're doing and get it there. So I think that's huge. Well, so I, I gotta tell you, this is, this for me has been great. I've really enjoyed this. Let me ask you, Michael, how soon are you entering other markets? Can you give our listeners right. I obviously insurance is huge. Can you give us any clues or hints as to what markets you guys might be moving into next?

Michael Gaddis: 54:09

sure. So, you know, we are licensed and approved to write in Texas. Alabama uh, and, and a few others. But those are the two that we're gonna focus on as our, as we get ready for expansion. You know, we're definitely in 2026, i, I we're guessing towards a later part of the year. so, you know, of course things change, but that's, uh, that's our plan for now. You know, we want to be slow and deliberate. you know, we've seen the history of sometimes carriers may go out and write a lot of premium'cause it looks sexy and then they end up burning themselves. So we don't want to get into a situation like that. We wanna be methodical within our approach.

James Blain: 54:50

No, absolutely. Look, I can't thank you enough for coming on the podcast. I gotta tell you, this has been really enlightening for me. I'm super excited to hear that you guys are looking at other markets. I think one of the biggest things I hear is there's a very limited pool of options, and I think to hear that we've got an insurance company that was born out of our industry that is growing within the industry is really great news and, and I'm excited to see what you guys do. Let me ask you, if you had to leave kind of a parting thought or if there was, you know, one last thing you want to try and, and put out there, say to the listeners or share, is there anything that you want to kinda leave us out?

Michael Gaddis: 55:26

you know, see from the operator standpoint when we had, you know, different programs and different insurance companies and, and, uh, you know, we. Now that I've seen it from both sides, you know, the partnership, and the relationship between the insured and their insurance company, us and our insureds, you know, even if, if they're with, you know, other insurance companies too, is, to look at us like your partner, like your friend, you know, business partner. I'm not so sure that, know, we have a bunch of insurers out there saying the insurance, you're scamming me. And what, that doesn't help anybody. you know, we want to have that relationship with our insureds to, you know, have them report to us, our claims, work with us in lawsuits, you know, then that helps the whole industry, right? Helps get rates to a place where they need to be. when, when insureds go rogue during lawsuits or whatever, you know, we're kind of behind the eight ball on that. Unfortunately it affects the whole marketplace,

James Blain: 56:25

Well, and I, I will echo that. You know, I was talking to a very, very large operator out of the Northeast, and one of the things they were talking about is they carry a very, very high deductible. And as part of that, they wanted to, you know, they, they kind of investigate their own stuff. They have their own way of doing things and they shared, they said, Hey, you know, it, it took a while for us to get with the insurance company and, and get that kind of, here's your part, here's my part. And I think there are a lot of people out there, and I hear it all the time, ah, you know, the insurance company, man, I can't report anything. I don't want to tell'em anything. The second I do this, they're gonna jack my rate. They're gonna do that. I genuinely believe if you look at your insurance partner as a frenemy. You are really kind of in that place of, they're always out to get me. They're always out to do this. I can tell you right now, the people that are transparent and honest with the insurance companies especially, and I'm gonna put this out there, especially when you guys are doing safety audits, are typically the ones that get the most help. You know, I, I'm lucky enough, I know a lot of these people that are out there doing the safety audits, right? We, we kind of operate in the same vein, and they're not out there trying to find an excuse to raise your rate. They're out there trying to help you run a better company because the better you run the company, that's a win-win for them and for you. So I, it really makes my day to hear you say that again, I want to thank you so much for coming on. If people want to get a hold of you, obviously as far as I understand, you guys are still just writing Florida at the moment. So if someone wants to get a hold of you, if they want to get a quote, if they wanna learn more about cable insurance company, what, what should they do?

Michael Gaddis: 58:05

Yeah, go to any one of our independent agencies. Uh, we partner with the larger transportation guys in Florida Professional Insurance Center research underwriters. We write a fair amount with SIP insurance down in Miami for some NEMT stuff. So, you know, go on our website. I think there's a fill out, a contact us page, and we'll get in touch based on location with the right broker. And happy to quote anybody's business as long as, as long as it looks good. So.

James Blain: 58:31

Awesome. I appreciate you coming on Everybody listening, if you haven't already, please drop us a like drop us a subscribe, leave us a comment, let us know what you like. Let us know what you don't like. Let us know what you're thinking and what you'd like to hear. And as always, thanks again for listening to the Ground Transportation podcast. Bye-bye.

58:47

Thank you for listening to the ground transportation podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe to the show on apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information about PAX training and to contact James, go to PAX training.com. And for more information about driving transactions and to contact Ken, Go to driving transactions.com. We'll see you next time on the ground transportation podcast.