Scott Woodruff 0:00

you actually want service failures to happen. I'm, I'm telling people all this time because if you address them and get in front of it and call the people and show that you actually care, you just made them seven times more loyal than they'll ever be.

Ken Lucci 0:40

good afternoon, ground Transportation podcast, audience. my name is Ken Luci from Driving Transactions. I'm your host today, my cohort, James Blaine from PAX Training is, out traveling the country, living outta suitcases, eating fast food, no doubt. training chauffeur and motor coach, drivers. So, James, you keep up the good fight, man. I miss you. But I am joined today by a friend and an industry icon, named Scott Woodruff from Majestic Limousine or Majestic Transportation in Des Moines, Iowa. Very active in the LNLA. always see him at the conferences. Always eager to help operators. So I think it's way overdue that we had you on the podcast, so I'm so happy that you've agreed. So Scott, welcome and tell us a little bit about your origin story. How did you get into the crazy business? We called chauffeur services.

Scott Woodruff 1:45

Well, first of all, thanks for having me, Ken. I always love talking about the business and any way we can help the operators, uh, and not trying to reinvent the wheel sometimes and, give them maybe a nugget or two that I've learned over the years. But, how'd that get in the industry? Well, I, oddly enough, graduated from Iowa State University, with a degree in transportation and logistics.

Ken Lucci 2:05

No kidding. Probably one of the few guys in the industry that actually has a degree in transportation logistics.

Scott Woodruff 2:11

we didn't learn about that. We learned about warehouses and trucking companies and, shipping and all that stuff. but you know, it's kind of that little claim of fame like, Hey, I actually am doing what I, uh, went to school for. so got outta school and, uh. Started to work for insurance company. Des Moines is a huge insurance home. Offices are based here. Um, didn't really know what I wanted to do. I've always been a car nut guy. I mean, I'm the Motorhead guy. Like what size engine is that? I mean, I'm just all about that stuff. back in the day, you probably remember the magazine racks at the grocery stores and there was these things called Wheeler Dealer or Deals on Wheels. Um, and I put, you know, I was always looking in there, what's out here? And I'm like, there's a limo. I can buy a limo for 10 grand.

Ken Lucci 2:54

Yeah.

Scott Woodruff 2:55

like, I'm not doing anything on the weekends. let's give it a shot. Uh, so I traded in my car and bought a limo.

Ken Lucci 3:01

No kidding. Your primary car and, and you bought yourself a stress limit. Okay, good.

Scott Woodruff 3:06

yeah, yeah. So, uh, did that and, um. Continued to work at my full-time job, trying to navigate this whole thing. Oddly enough, I bought it and I missed the yellow page ad cutoff, which back in the day that that was a big deal. so the first year was a little rough. Um, but just went out there and started talking to bigger operators that are in the area, you know, saying I could help and, uh, it kind of took its spot from there. I bought it in November of 96 and, uh, I quit my full-time job in 98. Two years later.

Ken Lucci 3:40

Wow. that's pretty darn good that you could replace your income in about two years, less than two years.

Scott Woodruff 3:48

it was to the point where, either I needed to put more effort into this and, and see it grow and try and work on it, or just keep doing what it was doing and. Having stuff go to answering machines, and I would, call'em back when I got home from work But, it just started to flourish. So I said, you know what? Let's, let's take the brisk

Ken Lucci 4:06

Well, if you kept it on the side, it would only be a hobby business. And the constraints of your primary job would certainly get in the way eventually. tell us about the Des Moines market now. I was shocked It is the fastest growing major metro area in the Midwest, and it's number two for top performing mid-size metro markets in the entire country. I was shocked. Tell us about Des Moines.

Scott Woodruff 4:35

so Des Moines, yeah, it's in Iowa and no, we don't drive John Deeres to work. but, you know, Iowa's known for agriculture. That's our big, you know, claim to fame, feed the world. Um, but Des Moines. Is a huge financial town. lots of banks, lots

Ken Lucci 4:52

A lot of insurance. Yep.

Scott Woodruff 4:54

of insurance companies, based in, Des Moines, Iowa. so oddly, a very white collar town. Um, and you know, I grew up here all my life. I didn't know any different. So, but, later on looking at it, you're like, wow, Des Moines, a very white collar town. And, the business started to progress and, noticed that there wasn't really, I mean, there was operators here doing it, but, the Des Moines market was hungry for maybe a higher level of transportation company. and because of that, I think it contributed a lot to the success. But yeah, so Des Moines, very financial, but you go outside of Des Moines and it's mostly agriculture.

Ken Lucci 5:30

Sure. That's where you pass the John Deers.

Scott Woodruff 5:33

Right. That's where we pass the John Deeres. We get groups in and they, they say, are we gonna see any corn fields that bike? You will see them in about 10 minutes.

Ken Lucci 5:40

it's funny because I, I live in an area that's got chicken farms and farms, so I, on my way home, always run into those John Deeres. I'm in the thriving metropolis of Salisbury, Maryland, but then when I head out towards Eden where I live, you're always running into those John Deere's. So tell me something, what, when you started and you bought that stretch, what made you pivot into,'cause I into corporate, I know you do a great job corporate wise.

Scott Woodruff 6:09

I went to my industry show, um, and, I started learning about the, back in the day, it was the LCT magazine. Then with Digest, And reading. I'm like, what are these shows? so I went to one and, I will tell you, I was on the show floor, didn't really know anything. I mean, I get it. it's very overwhelming when you're brand new. but I looked over and I saw this guy that really, you know, when you could look at somebody and say that guy looks like he really has you, you know, like he just gave off that air of

Ken Lucci 6:39

Had a

Scott Woodruff 6:39

experience. He had a presence. Exactly. so I went over and I said hi. I told him I'm like, can I ask you a few questions? And, he was obviously just like anyone else in our industry, sure. what can I do for you? And I said, how do you make any money in this business? And he goes, well, you know, how many corporate accounts do you have? And I go. I don't have any. And he goes, okay, how many town cars do you have? I go, I don't have any. And he goes, that's, he goes, what do you do? And I go, I have a six passenger stretch limousine that I do weddings with. He goes, well, that does work on Saturdays and we need to find you some work that does 5, 6, 7 days out of the week. And so he started explaining it to me and it made sense. And he started to explain to me and his, his name was Gary Olson, silver West Limo in Dallas. I wish I could find him'cause I just tell him how much, his. Has given me five to 10 minutes on the show floor, made me realize a lot of things and made me pivot

Ken Lucci 7:45

So I'm gonna stop you there. You know, so what year was this roughly?

Scott Woodruff 7:49

had to have been, the first part in 98, I'm guessing.

Ken Lucci 7:55

one of the things that I, having been in the security industry, the medical health equipment, field, boutique ends, and now this business, this business more than any of the others, maybe the boutique ends, they helped each other out a lot. This business, I've never seen anything like our conferences where operators are so willing to help young operators. So that was a pivotal moment for you but here's the key. You could have not listened, you could have said, I'm just gonna do what I want to do. and you would've had a great part-time job. So when did you buy your first town car and how did you get out there in the market for corporate? How did you pivot? Networking wise or marketing wise?

Scott Woodruff 8:51

so then he explained to me how affiliate business works. I was like, okay, I got it. and so I started just, this is back in the day when on the show floor, empire would have a booth and Aircom would have a booth back when it was Aircom And, all these had booths. And I just went up and started telling them who I was and giving out cards. And, the phone doesn't ring right away, but they keep it, and next thing you know, you get that call, Hey, can you help me out? our provider fell through. I need somebody in an hour. Absolutely. and so, I maybe lost the question of what you were, how did I pick? So I bought my first town car after the show. I came

Ken Lucci 9:26

So right after the show,

Scott Woodruff 9:28

Yep. Navy blue. I didn't know that Black was navy blue, A

Ken Lucci 9:34

blew Okay. But that's still very acceptable.

Scott Woodruff 9:37

it was, people didn't, you know, we get so hung up on black a lot of times, but, I didn't know that it had to be black, but you know what, nobody really cared. It was nice, it was clean. It it did what it was supposed to do.

Ken Lucci 9:48

so you primed the pump of your corporate business by doing affiliate work

Scott Woodruff 9:52

well, and, and my full-time job, um, I had access to a lot of vice presidents for the position that I was in and type of agent broker dealer compensation. Um, they got involved in that stuff. So, I was able to slip in here and there, hey, old and I do this, you know, I got this little, and I'm gonna tell you that did not help me, that's for sure.

Ken Lucci 10:14

that's good. Your primary job, you were able to tell people what you did. You have this limousine company. Did it hurt your primary job in the beginning or no?

Scott Woodruff 10:25

I think everybody, I look back at that and I remember talking to them and, you know, that I can see in their eyes like, here's a young guy, 26 years old, and he's, he's trying to do something here. and they were just very supportive of that. obviously they liked me, with the job I was doing there, but there was a lot of people that was in my full-time job that. could see something that I didn't know I had in me. You know what I mean?

Ken Lucci 10:50

Yeah. Like you were a hard worker at 26 years old. I mean, we can all relate to that from our generation. mean, I'm a little older than you, but I just remember there's no question that when you are that aggressive and that young and sometimes you don't know better, it's kind of the best combination, right? As long as you have common sense. So you said a few things there that are pretty important. Number one, he gave you the advice that you needed to get into the corporate space. Number two, he gave you the advice that you needed to start doing affiliate work. Okay? And number three, you did the right thing when those affiliates started calling you eventually. You said yes. You didn't hedge, you didn't push back, you didn't say, but you said yes and you made it happen. So when did you start really coming into your own on corporate accounts? So you left the primary job. how did you grow the business in those early years to attract corporate customers?

Scott Woodruff 11:49

I just started calling on him,

Ken Lucci 11:51

When you say Colin, you mean walking in?

Scott Woodruff 11:54

walking in, trying to make email contacts. Who was what? leaning on my already contacts that I had at my full-time job of like, they, they all talked together, so it was really the admins. I'm like, so I would ask the admins. I, I'd say, Hey, Judy, who's, who's a good admin at, this company? And they, they knew everybody. I mean, that's Iowa. they're like, oh, get ahold of this person. So, leaning on those and, you know, it's, it's just good old organic growth. But those people talk, they all talk together.

Ken Lucci 12:27

Look, we all talk operators, all talk about who should I use for delivery dealer? Who should I use for a gas card company? And it's the same in every market. Okay? Sure. There is some difficult markets like downtown man, you know, Manhattan, et cetera. But you can't discount what you did, which is you used your insurance training. To not figuratively or literally knock on doors, call people, send emails, but also connect the dots, right? Don't be afraid to ask somebody, Hey, do you know anybody at such and such a company? You know, I see some of the younger operators that, you know, they, they call me for help and they tell me they're not making any money. And I say, well, how do you get, and they're not growing. How do you get out there? How are you letting people know in your market who you are? How do we, and they don't have any concept of networking. I think it's almost a lost art. They want to throw money at Google Ads.

Scott Woodruff 13:28

You can't beat beating the pavement. I would go out and put flyers on cars, um, walking in the parking lot, putting'em everywhere. I'll share this. I got all these contacts of these admins, and so I went to, the, massage therapist that my wife goes to, and I walked in and I said, Hey, Judy, I'm gonna need 15 one hour gift certificates. She's like, great, that'll be, and I'm like, and I want you to give them to me.

Ken Lucci 13:54

Interesting.

Scott Woodruff 13:55

And I go, I am gonna use this to tell people about me, but to give them something in return. so let's say, let's just make easy numbers. Let's just say it was 10. So 10, so five, don't use it. Right? Okay. So you didn't, you're not

Ken Lucci 14:12

Agreed that that's 100% those statistics are

Scott Woodruff 14:14

other five, use it. And if you are as good as you are, which I know you are, you're gonna convert it least two or three of'em to regular clients. Was it worth it? And she says, yeah. And she gave me the gift certificates.

Ken Lucci 14:28

Well, what you did, you did two things there that are critically important. Number one, you bartered, right? And You practice give to get. Okay. You also explained to her cost of lead, cost of inquiry,

Scott Woodruff 14:40

it and I didn't know what I was doing Yeah.

Ken Lucci 14:42

No, but you know, you're either, you, you've got a long-term vision. You know, the, um, lifetime value of a customer is the most important thing when you make your first sale. So if she was spending a grand a month on whatever yellow pages,

Scott Woodruff 15:00

Yellow page. Yep.

Ken Lucci 15:01

how many times does that phone have to ring and her to have to have new massage clients? To justify a thousand dollars yellow page ad, or you know, now it's Google Ads. So you know, that's what I call Gorilla marketing. that's the block and tackling of networking. Tell me something, did it hurt you that you were a local or regional business, or did it help you with those corporations? A lot of operators will say, no, I can't do that. That's what the networks do. Tell me your feeling about, think back when you were developing those corporate clients. Did it hurt you to be local or regional, or did it help you more often than not?

Scott Woodruff 16:36

Oh, I would say overwhelmed when they get helped you. because you're using somebody local, you have a relationship with, they know who to call. They know what they're getting. Um, and you can't beat it. That's why you go to the farmer's market when you always buy from this guy over here.'cause you know, his product. Um, uh, it's, it's, Why do you go to this restaurant in your area? That's maybe a mom pop.'cause you know what you're getting and you like that and you support it

Ken Lucci 17:01

and especially in the service business, right? If I'm just buying, you know, the same staple, whether it's Home Depot, I go to, home Depot or Lowe's, I don't care. Right? But if it's a service, I'm gonna ask people. If I'm unhappy with my provider, I'm gonna ask people in my area who they use. And I also admire service businesses that are actively out there supporting the community. So now your, your wife works in the business. tell me a little bit about when you started, who did what. How did you get to the point?'cause I know you just went away on vacation. We will keep the location undisclosed, but you were able to go for a, for a, an extended period. So tell us in the beginning who did what and then how did you scale? we've not talked about the size of your business, but you know, just if you wanna share what roughly what kind of revenue.

Scott Woodruff 17:54

So oddly enough, when I started out and the phone started ringing more and I wasn't able to answer it all the time, like I was driving, I was doing all that stuff. I reached out to my friends and I says, anybody got a stay-at-home mom? That what maybe to help out here and there. my software was corporate car in line, which was really the first ever software that was in the cloud before the people really knew what the cloud was. you could just forward the phone to a cell phone, paid for call 40. I'll tell you the number. I paid her 600 a month and she answered the phones. She answered the phone. That's all they needed. She could do the software right there. having somebody answer the phone that isn't driving that can give the people the service they want was another one of those major pivotal moments that really launched it. People don't wanna leave a message and you call'em back. They're moving on to somebody else.

Ken Lucci 18:44

they are a thousand percent moving on. The other thing they want, want to hear is, I'll have so and so get back to you. Scott's out driving, but I'll have him get back to you later. know, we're in an instant gratification world. they at least want the basics, right? Meaning that if they say, we want to do an over the world motor coach trip, of course, you know, my boss is gonna have to get back to you. But if it's vanilla ice cream, every day services, you've gotta answer their questions and you've got to. Try to sell value because you know the world we live in, everybody's looking for a lower price. So talk to me about, so after you did that, what did you do with your time? Then you hired somebody to answer the phones. What did you do when you were growing the business?

Scott Woodruff 19:29

then I was, I was doing the driving, I was doing the part that I enjoyed and meeting the people, doing the, the service levels that I expected. and I'll tell you about, you have to ask me later of how I really launched my service standards. and, um, you know, I, I met my wife at the time, in, 2004. We got married in 2005, but 2004, you know, she was working for, a small little insurance agency here in Des Moines. And I, I must have been a good salesman'cause I con over to Condor, I'm like, come work for, you know me. We,

Ken Lucci 20:06

let's just talk about this. Let's just talk about this for one second. You ma, she knowingly married into the limo business where she knew you were gonna be working seven days a week, and she signed on to work for you.

Scott Woodruff 20:20

I, yeah, I, I guess I had a great smile or something. I don't know.

Ken Lucci 20:25

So what did she do when she came over?

Scott Woodruff 20:29

Uh, she just helped a lot with the office stuff. She could sell ice to Eskimos. she's good on the phone. She's good talking to people. She's fast on her feet. I'll give her a claim to fame way better than I ever could be. she knows how to work a crowd. She knows she loves people. She's an extrovert. so doing that, was once again one of those pivotal moments that you look back and you're like, wow, what a way to really launch into a higher level, of trips. And, you know, of course you start hiring chauffeur. People that do on the weekends. I could do it during the week. But then you started figuring out, oh crap, what happens when flights get delayed and they all come down top of each other? so you just start hiring other drivers. I found retired guys that were like, yeah, I'll help you out here and there. Well, guess what? The business started getting better and they're like, why did you need for this to be a full-time job? I'm like, I know. It's crazy, isn't it? Um, so, but yeah, getting software, was a big deal. I think if you're not running on a software now, I don't know how people do it.

Ken Lucci 21:28

So did you talk about the networking aspect, meaning do you go to the Chamber of Commerce meetings, executive assistant and association, what's important to you to becoming known and staying relevant in the market?

Scott Woodruff 21:41

Well, I found out, so I know the, you know, the c not. Breakfast clubs, all that stuff. They're all filled with insurance people and real estate agents, it seemed like. And I was quickly finding out. I'm like, Where are the admin groups? How can I get with them? How can I provide lunch at their next meeting for them? How can I get in front of'em? those are the real decision makers. So that's what I went after. When do they meet? Who are they? How can I get involved in, how can I sponsor their chapter or whatever that is. and yeah, that's

Ken Lucci 22:13

people people would be shocked In most markets there are executive assistant associations

Scott Woodruff 22:21

Yeah, absolutely.

Ken Lucci 22:23

and there are also physician office manager associations. Law Clerk associations, the, not to mention the Bar association. So, you know, you did the regular and you're a personable guy. That's the key. You know, somebody said to me, I went to visit them the other, couple weeks ago, and they said, well, geez, Ken, you know, you can talk in front of people. You get the gift to gab. And I said, look, all you need to be is personable. Remember, and use their name and then leave them something of value. even if you're shy, you can, practice a 32nd commercial, always using the prospective person's, the client's name, and then it's collecting their information and making sure that they see your brand. You know, the art of, Hey, could I have your business card is kind of gone passe. So you have to have a memory of who they are and where they work. If you were starting out today. Knowing what you know now, but you were starting out, what would you tell your 20 year younger self

Scott Woodruff 23:29

Are you sure you wanna be in a 24 7 business?

Ken Lucci 23:32

there you go. It's true. It's true. You have to be a special type of person, but how do you balance your life? Now you've got, you're obviously, enjoying yourself'cause you went away, but how do you balance that? How did you remove yourself from the 3:00 AM phone calls for reservations? Just standard reservations, you know, not accidents. We all get woken up for stuff. But How did you remove yourself?

Scott Woodruff 23:56

Well, it's no secret. You hear it all the time. You just surround yourself with good people. Everybody's like, oh, and they ask me and I'm like, it's not me, it's the team. Find the right person to be dedicated and part of the team. you know, I, I didn't realize it back then, but build a culture. Every company has a culture. Some are different than others. the culture in my mind will drive the other stuff. People are happy to come to work. They like the culture. we do regular outings, like we just got back. we took everybody to a hockey game. Um, and that's what we do. I get people that come in like, oh, we never do anything like this at my other job. And I'm like, we're, do we have potlucks? We have all kinds of stuff that we are, we want to drive that culture of a family and that people will then, they'll, they'll drive through fire for you. You know what I mean? when I call'em, I say. Like Ken, I have no other choice. can you help me out at this 4:00 AM trip tomorrow? Absolutely. Yeah.

Ken Lucci 24:59

Well, they like, they like where they work. That's the key. you hit upon something. The culture starts at the top. there's an operator who shall remain nameless in the Midwest, who's got probably the worst reputation I've ever seen on reviews. Some of these reviews are so toxic, and it all starts with rude, reservationist, rude dispatcher, rude driver, called in a complaint. The owner was rude, and my message is nice people deliver nice service When they're treated well. And that's the cultural aspect. I'm a new operator and I want to really build a company with a superior culture, what do you recommend?

Scott Woodruff 25:42

Well, first I'm gonna ask you, what's your vision statement? What's your corporate values and what's your mission statement? And they're gonna probably go, I, I don't know. I go, let's work on that first. Basically, what drives you? What do you think? How, and that's how you derive you know, those mission statement corporate values. once you develop those corporate values, then you eat, live and breathe those corporate values.

Ken Lucci 26:08

no question. It's the why. Why are we here?

Scott Woodruff 26:13

our logo is a triangle, and there's three points to the triangle. Those three points are our three corporate values. They're the three Ps of majestic. Each point is a P of Majestic, professional, punctual, and precise. And precise is the details, details, details. That's what we live by.

Ken Lucci 26:31

Gimme those again. Professional,

Scott Woodruff 26:35

punctual

Ken Lucci 26:36

punctual,

Scott Woodruff 26:37

to be earliest, to be on time is to be late. And then precise. Details, details, details. Getting all the details is what sets us apart.

Ken Lucci 26:45

we just started doing something and it wasn't me, it was my business partner and we have a retained client who asked, Hey, can you put something together from my data that, tracks my on time performance by, by driver? and we did that for them and we actually started offering it to all our retained clients. people don't understand the importance of a 15 minute spot time. I'm an anxious person by nature, and I don't want to have to look out a minute before I'm supposed to leave to see if that vehicle is there. it's the same with communication. And it's the same with repeating the data. When I call in for a reservation and somebody goes, yep, yep, yep, yep. It, it really makes me anxious. It's Mr. Lucci, can I repeat your information? It's kind of a lost art. Right? And can I repeat the information you just gave me? And then at the end, reconfirming it's at every stage of the process. Your three Ps really just crystallized where we should be as an industry. So let's talk about your service levels. You started as a driver. Back then, there was no PAX training. There was no, well, there might've been a Tom Mazda training. God got there. Might've been. But how did you

Scott Woodruff 28:08

He's still part of our training. They have to watch his video and take a

Ken Lucci 28:11

isn't it amazing how many people watched the Tom Mazda show for training video? So how did you develop your service training initially?

Scott Woodruff 28:20

Well, I can't remember how I got, introduced to this, legend in service, but his name's John De Julius. He actually spoke a few LA shows, but the last one I think was our comeback show after COVID. he was our keynote speaker. and he talked about service levels and how to be five star. he owned, hair salons and one little example, in the hair salon, they wore black and white, you know, apron, I dunno what they call'em, you know, over when you're cutting your hair. so the white one was regular customers and the black ones, or, or it could have been flip flop, we're brand new customers their first time there. Oh, and Ken has a black one on. Oh, hi, Mr. Lucci. Hey, it's great to see you here. I'm, so and so I do nails or what, you know, like he, he figured out a secret way to find out information about people. and give it to his team to where it didn't look like they were like, wow, they're super nice here. but he has this book. It's, this is all my chauffeur. Read this. I don't know if you can, oh, I lost it. Oh, here we go. Secret service.

Ken Lucci 30:31

Secret Service by John r De Julius iii, secret Service by John r De Julius iii. And the funny thing is this, this guy was in something as, I don't wanna say pedestrian, but it's something as simple as he owned a hair salon. and the key is, I bet you his prices were higher than the average because people listen, if you treat people much better than your competition, it's a license to print money. you can get more than the average,

Scott Woodruff 31:06

he will say in the book. Make price irrelevant.

Ken Lucci 31:10

exactly.

Scott Woodruff 31:11

price irrelevant. there's a downturn in the economy, whatever, and, so and so's getting their haircut and be like, oh, well you should cut back and go to a different, well, no, that's a non-negotiable. I'm always going to his salon, make price irrelevant. We can cut back something else. We need hot dogs and not steaks, but I'm not giving up the Julius hair salon.

Ken Lucci 31:32

Look, I would encourage anybody to look at that book, secret Service by John De Julius.

Scott Woodruff 31:40

my team has to read it and they have to do an essay on it, and they get a hundred bucks for reading it

Ken Lucci 31:45

now wait a minute. Back up. You just dropped a golden nugget there. Tell me that again.

Scott Woodruff 31:50

Everybody on the team has to have to read it, write an essay on it, three, four paragraphs, What did you learn from it? Yeah. And I pay him a, i I pay him a hundred bucks. Yeah, okay. Yes. That, that can be a lot of money if you're just starting out, whatever. But the book is a such an easy read. It's a paperback book. It's not very big. and it's an easy read and it really hits on a lot of service standards. Like, you send a chauffeur route and, and the, the, you know, back when we used to do champagne, things like that, the bride says, oh, I was supposed to have champagne, so, which, which is better. And he talks about this, the, the chauffeur going, oh, here's my trip sheet. Doesn't say anywhere about champagne. Why would you do that? You still have the same problem, right? Don't try to, and we always try to make it so people are like, well, it's not my fault, it's not my fault. It doesn't matter. We still have the same problem.

Ken Lucci 32:43

fix the problem.

Scott Woodruff 32:44

Fix the problem. We'll deal with that part Later But yeah, you still got the same problem, right? She just doesn't have any champagne.

Ken Lucci 32:51

You know, it's so easy, it's so common sense to take ownership of the issue. When did it come appropriate in corporate America to play the blame game? It's not my fault, it's not my job. would you agree it's gotten worse since after the pandemic?

Scott Woodruff 33:06

I, I, a hundred percent. you actually want service failures to happen. I'm, I'm telling people all this time because if you address them and get in front of it and call the people and show that you actually care, you just made them seven times more loyal than they'll ever be.

Ken Lucci 33:24

a hundred percent. You, first of all, I don't, subscribe to, there's no way with as much moving parts as we have in our industry not to have an occasional. Service failure, but you can engineer them out by addressing them. I get frustrated. I have one specific client who really has a problem hanging on to help. And he talked, he complained about his employees one time, and he said, this has happened four times in the past week. I said, okay, that's not their fault. It's your fault.

Scott Woodruff 33:54

Mm-hmm.

Ken Lucci 33:54

do you mean? Well, first of all, it's something called a teachable moment. Don't jump down their throat, okay? Don't jump down their throat. Say, listen, Let's just dissect what happened here. And how do you suggest making sure we never, ever forget the champagne in the future. That's number one. And number two, I want you to know you can go outta your way and I will always, always compensate you if you have to do whatever. I'm gonna stand behind you fixing the problem. What you're describing is the Ritz Carlton way. It's the Ritz car. It, it, it totally is. But I love this de Julius because people say, and again, we're talking about Secret, the book Secret Service by John de Julius. By the way, I would buy it just because it says Secret Service. And I'd get halfway into it and realize it's not about the United States Secret Service, but I love it Yeah. But what he's saying there with the title is, if you do it right, people they expect it, but they don't notice the mechanics of you providing it. I can already tell what he is talking about. I think we've lost that as an art in our industry and in our culture. And I don't think people realize how valuable it is in our industry. I think they're just so hung up on, well, I'm competing against so and so and so and so and so and so. Don't worry about it. You're really only competing with yourself.

Scott Woodruff 35:24

you're right. Well, what Uber does that I'm like, oh, we're not Uber like, you know, I tell everybody when we train them, our customers are the first 10 rows of the airplane. Okay.

Ken Lucci 35:33

hundred. Absolutely.

Scott Woodruff 35:34

and they're like, huh. And I'm like, they paid two or three times as much to ride on the same airplane, but they got a bigger seat. They got a little better service. And that's what they want.

Ken Lucci 35:46

They expect more.

Scott Woodruff 35:48

they expect more and they're willing to

Ken Lucci 35:51

to pay for it.

Scott Woodruff 35:52

I'm, how do you how do you, tell some, you know,$150 to the airport? Those are our people. Now, when somebody goes, oh, 150 to the airport, I'm like. Respectfully, you're not, you're not in our, clientele. That's just not us for you, but we're here for the other people. And then just recognizing what do they do? Like did, did they walk down with an Orange crush? Pop in their hand. Okay, great. That's good to know. Note their client, note their profile. I know. You know what? I like Orange Crush that you were drinking it the other day.

Ken Lucci 36:25

a hundred percent. and listen, the reality is that it's in the small details. Okay? It's in the small details, and it's the level of service that distinguishes your company. Not the lowest price. Lowest price is the race to the bottom. I've had this debate with everybody throughout the years, but this is the only job where I've actually had the data. Every single successful company that's profitable, where the owner does very well and owns their own building and actually has a really good net worth outside the industry, outside the job. Their prices are always in the top half of the market.

Scott Woodruff 37:05

Make price irrelevant. Make

Ken Lucci 37:07

they And I, I just, sometimes I get real frustrated arguing with operators and people in the industry that say, well, the corporations want the lowest price. Actually, that's not true. Prices price is only as relevant as you make it. And as it, it's lit, it's the more important the service is to your customer. Meaning the executive assistant who doesn't want the phone call at three o'clock in the morning'cause the car didn't show up. She, she's the one. You need to say, you know what, yeah, we are a little bit higher price, but I'll tell you, our on time performance is fantastic. We are absolutely early morning professionals. We will never let you down. She's gonna do that. She's going to buy into the service level. So let's switch gears and

Scott Woodruff 37:54

I just, quick story. I had, a pretty well known person in Des Moines, a wealthy individual that was starting a car service. he actually came and visited my shop and we talked and he goes, I just wanna let you know, I thought it was really nice. I'm like, Hey, I'm gonna go after corporate business. I'm gonna be calling on a lot of these people. And I said, great. I wish you luck. I hope Paul goes well. And he goes, I just wanted to let you know,'cause I didn't want you to be blindsided. And he left and somebody says, what's he doing? I told him, he goes, are you scared? and I said, I'm not scared because if they leave us to go to him, shame on us.

Ken Lucci 38:37

Correct,

Scott Woodruff 38:37

Because they obviously weren't, they were looking for something else, And so they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, just keep doing what you're doing. Be the best, be the best. People Don't leave for$5 They won't leave for that. They'll leave because they didn't get what they want and the relationship's not there, and their expectations aren't being met,

Ken Lucci 38:58

a hundred percent. you did not make enough of an impression to make your service worth 10, 15, 20% more. And every survey proves it. Every anecdotal story out there will prove it that people will pay extra if you make them feel special. And if you live up to what you just did. The professional, the precision. the

Scott Woodruff 39:24

punctual, professional,

Ken Lucci 39:25

it. And, you know, at the end of the day, the punctual thing, I also think this is really suffered after the pandemic is the thought process of a 15 minute spot time. I have, well, we don't do that. I've had operators been standing inside operators when they're on the phone with an affiliate and they say, well, we don't guarantee that we don't do that. And I whisper to the operator, find another affiliate, find another affiliate. You know what they're telling you? They don't give a shit about your business

Scott Woodruff 39:52

Mm-hmm.

Ken Lucci 39:53

if they're gonna

Scott Woodruff 39:54

and they're running it super lean. Super lean. it's okay to be five minutes late for them. That's not a big deal that's fine. That's not a Ritz Carlton. That's probably a Marriott or a Hyatt or something like that. But which space do you want be in? You either space is fine, to make money, but if you're gonna charge a premium, if you wanna charge 220 at an airport, then work it. That's fine.

Ken Lucci 40:18

and you can absolutely distinguish the value. you know, our mutual friend Doug Schwartz and I talk all the time and I've got him kind of programmed a little bit. When people call in for an Uber ride, he says, you know what, A lot of people call and try to compare us to Uber. We are definitely gonna be more expensive, but if you use us, you're not gonna have to call me tomorrow morning at four 30 when your Uber doesn't show up. This happens all the time with us. People compare us with an Uber, but then something happens at four 30 in the morning because they can't guarantee the driver will be there. Our driver will be there. Let me tell you what our systems are like. So you're absolutely right and, and I don't know why people are so scared to. Charge what they're worth. Maybe they feel that they can't live up to the Ritz Carlton level expectations. But again, I mean, we didn't go, I didn't expect to go down this road and with John De Julius, maybe we'll have to get him on the podcast, but the book you have all of you people read is by John de Julius, and it's called Secret Service.

Scott Woodruff 41:27

Exactly.

Ken Lucci 41:28

I also love the fact that you have them write an essay, but you pay'em a hundred bucks for it. Scott, there's no mistaking that you purposefully built a superior culture. So, let's talk metal for a little bit. talk to me about, you in the beginning obviously had a diversified fleet, but then you standardized talk. to us about the evolution of your fleet.

Scott Woodruff 41:52

Well. Just like any operator, I think you feel like, you always remember the calls you couldn't service. Somebody calls in and wants a, oh, I need, I want a vintage car for my wedding.

Ken Lucci 42:04

yep,

Scott Woodruff 42:05

Oh, okay. And I fell into the trap. I'm like, oh, let's get some Hummer limos. Let's get a vintage car. Let's get an Escalade. Let's get a Suburban. Let's get all these different types of vehicles because I, I want to be everybody, to everybody, everything to everybody, I should say.

Ken Lucci 42:22

right, right.

Scott Woodruff 42:24

Well, then you start looking at the numbers and you're like, this vehicle's tying up a prime real estate in my shop to

Ken Lucci 42:33

Yep.

Scott Woodruff 42:33

Saturday.

Ken Lucci 42:34

Correct.

Scott Woodruff 42:35

What does it bring in? Okay. so. I, while I still wanted, you know, it's hard. We we're a very ego-driven industry. We, we love to talk about our shiny vehicles, we love to talk about this and we have that, we have this, and I just made the decision. it was pre COVID. I was starting to go this way, but after COVID I said, Nope, this is what we're doing. I said, Nope, We're not gonna be that. We are focusing on, you know, our bus industry and our, our corporate transportation executive, and that's what we want to be. and got rid of all the limos and all that stuff.

Ken Lucci 43:10

you did something important. You know, first of all, you measured the vehicles, the asset by the revenue it brings in, not by the ego of saying, Hey, I have this in my fleet. I fell into that trap when I was an operator. And, but having said that, I wanted to go deep into the wedding space. Okay? Deep, deep, deep. Like we did a million dollars in weddings and. The vintage made sense for us. But the other piece is when we were in the corporate space, I would find anything I could find for a sedan, whether it was new or used, and I didn't standardize. You know, I made a comment on Facebook one time and somebody jumped out at me because they didn't catch what I was saying. The most profitable companies I know are, are so standardized on everything that the same rim and the same tire is on every single SUV, every single sedan, they buy from the same coach builder. Everything is a gretch, right? And they buy the same motor coaches. Everything is MCI, whatever you want, right? The lack of standardization costs you money. And I always found the most profitable businesses are the ones that. Everything was standard that they could possibly make standard. So let's pivot a little bit and tell you were an early adopter into motor coaches. What'd you get into

Scott Woodruff 44:40

It and I wanna say on the retail business that while we jumped out of it, I'll get back to motor cook it. there's a market for that. I mean, I don't wanna discount people can specialize in that. You could be the best vintage car operator and make a killing Just pick something and be, be the best at it. Pick something and be the best at it.

Ken Lucci 44:58

jacks of all trades don't work in anything. that's why I admire Dougie. Dougie kills it in weddings, and he's absolutely on top of it as far as airport, corporate, airport. but he doesn't try to do shuttles. and by the way, he's not the least expensive ride to the airport. Just go that way. You're not everybody's, bowl of soup, right? Just don't worry about it. but you're right. specialize in and build your systems around it to be the best at it. So yeah. Let's pivot to motor coaches. That was a big move.

Scott Woodruff 45:28

So I've had motor coaches before. They were cool. back in 2004, we were getting to a point where we were doing, a little larger groups, things like this and, not to knock the bus industry, I'm not knocking that it was just the providers that we were able to secure in the bigger buses didn't match the service levels that we were wanting to hit. And so in 2004 when I'd had enough of it, I basically said, I'm just gonna get a bus. How hard could it be? Right, Ken? How hard could it be?

Ken Lucci 46:01

Yep.

Scott Woodruff 46:02

I went and looked at my first motor coach. It was a used one, it was a five speed, MCI, the guy said, you gotta double clutch it. I'm like, I don't know what that means, but I'm trying to figure it out. You know what he said to me? He said, you got a good mechanic. And I go, why? He goes, and he chuckled at me and then I bought the bus, and then I soon figured out why he was chuckling at me. but so we adopted it in 2004 we bought a bus, and then next thing you know, I bought another, 45 footer. trying to figure that whole thing out

Ken Lucci 46:35

yep.

Scott Woodruff 46:36

and I didn't know what I was doing. and then, you know, pre COVID started coming around. We are getting more into this business here.

Ken Lucci 46:45

Yep.

Scott Woodruff 46:45

And, we have some big gorillas in Iowa, that are huge. They have buses all over. but I said we're gonna start taking a piece of that pie. Let's just work on our corporate values of how we can provide that level of service in a bus. and that's what we did.

Ken Lucci 47:01

So you were kind of on the bleeding edge of motor coaches. What would you, if you were, your younger self, what would you advise any chauffeur operator before they considered getting into motor Coach?'cause I have to tell you, Scott, I have seen delving into motor coaches kill more small chauffeur companies than high insurance. I have seen it just kill their companies. It was a company in, North Carolina, the guy called me a year and a half ago wanting to sell it, but, or two years ago, wanting to sell it. And he was upside down on two motor coaches. It also came back to me because four or five people in the market he talked to about buying it. what I told him when I looked at it for him initially was, you're upside down on your buses. You're charging rates that were even low before COVID. I hate to tell you, you don't have a business to sell you. he was getting eaten alive by repair and maintenance. this is critical, what would you tell your younger self about motor coaches? Certainly you wouldn't say, don't get into them because it's been good to you, but what are your primary lessons?

Scott Woodruff 48:13

Well, you can't just buy one. You always gotta buy at least two

Ken Lucci 48:18

Yep.

Scott Woodruff 48:19

and be prepared to figure out how to get the bus on the highway and not just being used around town. Around town is not gonna pay for a half a million dollar bus.

Ken Lucci 48:30

Right.

Scott Woodruff 48:31

Getting trips over the road, getting in touch with sports teams, schools, all that, the military, to get that business because you are dining around for four hours, you're not gonna make. Any money. And if you are, it's because you bought a a hundred thousand dollars motor coach that you constantly are fixing. Constantly. and you know, you buy a brand new motor coach the first year, you're constantly fixing it before it finally gets all its lins worked out. It doesn't matter what brand it is, but it's different. There's a lot of DOT regulations that go into it. There's a lot of training that goes into driving a 45 foot bus. You, you see these newer operators and The right side's all banged up and the back end's all banked up right turns and backing up. And you can't just put a driver in it. You gotta train them and get them to a level that they're understanding on how to do that stuff. They just can't go everywhere. are you prepared to take the risk of the big financial outlay. Are you prepared to put the training in? And are you prepared to be everything that the DOT and F-M-C-S-A wants you to do? Are you that person? And if you're not that detailed person, I'm a black and white rules guy. If you're not and you're gonna get in the buses, you need to find somebody who is, because FMCA doesn't care about, well they were almost back. They only went over their hours by five minutes. It doesn't matter to them, it's a violation. and you gotta have that detailed person there, which is part of the corporate value.

Ken Lucci 50:03

And what I see when you got into your business was already doing well. Right. Okay. How much motor Coach did you farm out before you bought your first bus?

Scott Woodruff 50:16

Oh gosh. so that was many years ago. but we were farming out, you know, two to three trips a week.

Ken Lucci 50:23

Yep.

Scott Woodruff 50:24

and then we were babysitting the crap out of them.

Ken Lucci 50:26

Right, so you already had a book of business out there. you already had a mature, profitable limo company. I see too many operators trying to get in to motor coaches as a Hail Mary pass to save a company that's just not doing well. and I think that that's one of the primary issues of our industry.

Scott Woodruff 50:47

First of all, why? Why are they not doing well? That's the first step.

Ken Lucci 50:50

hundred percent. Most of them don't really understand how to price and they think top line revenue is their answer. And I'm just gonna buy a motor coach because I see people buying them and they say, I can do two or 300,000 a year in revenue. I mean, you had a methodical plan. You did it because you couldn't find providers that lived up to your standard. And now I would argue you have a nice second division of your company. That's valuable.

Scott Woodruff 51:16

You go buy a billboard for 300 a month, and if you tell me all I gotta do is do two airport transfers and I paid for the billboard, that's not right.

Ken Lucci 51:27

Yep.

Scott Woodruff 51:27

you need to go to Ken Lucci school because he will show you how many airport rides that actually takes to pay for that.

Ken Lucci 51:34

it's the argument I have with people on their spending$3,000 a month on Google ads. And they say, oh, I got$20,000 worth of business. I'm like, congratulations, you kind of broke even, right? Because you know, at the end of the NOI you make 10 to 15%. But Motor Coach is a, huge investment. what final advice would you have for newer operators in the space? what, what do you want the audience to know from you?

Scott Woodruff 52:05

so inspect what you expect. if your expectations are here, but you're not making sure that's being done, then you're failing your team. Create a culture. What do you want your culture to be? And that's why coming up with your corporate values and all that stuff, create that culture and make sure that everybody understands it. Plastered in your shop or, or if you're at a home office, make sure you're signed up that talks about your culture. Work on your service values. If you want to be that Ritz Carlton and just take care of your team, treat'em like they want to be treated. you don't yell at people, you don't get on'em. You have a service cell, you talk through it, you figure out how you could do better and then you move on.

Ken Lucci 52:50

and the secret to success is it doesn't happen again. That's the secret to knowing. When you've solved the problem, don't keep repeating,

Scott Woodruff 52:58

But if I was to sit down with somebody and say, tell me about your business. You've done this to me. Tell me about your business. And they go, well, I do. I'm like, let's focus. What do you want to do? Create your corporate values. Who do you wanna service? Then go after it. If you wanna be the best damn vintage car operator then do it

Ken Lucci 53:18

yeah,

Scott Woodruff 53:18

and be successful at it. Be the best at it.

Ken Lucci 53:21

I've seen people in all aspects when they specialize and when they run to ground the finest detail. I've seen them profit in every silo. It's the jack of all trades that think they have to sell on low price that never make it. the costs are too high. The people cost a lot of money to provide the service. but the right clients, you know, the right clients will pay for it.

Scott Woodruff 53:47

don't get sucked into the, you don't necessarily need an escalate. Maybe your market does why, but do you really need, are they gonna pay for it?

Ken Lucci 53:55

Are they gonna pay you extra for it? Are they gonna pay you extra? I'm seeing a lot of people operate business class and then they have an executive class. But your point is, don't go out and spend 108,000 on an Escalade when a$70,000 suburban will do. Well, that's where we have to end it, because we've gone into our second hour. Listen, Scott, I gotta tell you, when you first called, I said I wanna look more into this, into your business because I've seen you around and seen you all the work you do with the NLA and I have to tell you, you've got an impressive company. next time you go to the chauffeur driven NLA conference, look for Scott. He'll absolutely help you Any way he can.

Scott Woodruff 54:35

Happy to.

Ken Lucci 54:36

And thank you for everything you do with the NLA and for the industry, and I hope you'll come back again.

Scott Woodruff 54:43

Okay.

Speaker 2 54:45

Thank you for listening to the ground transportation podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe to the show on apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information about PAX training and to contact James, go to PAX training.com. And for more information about driving transactions and to contact Ken, Go to driving transactions.com. We'll see you next time on the ground transportation podcast.