Derek Barrs 0:00

"You have to know what your why is." And my why is I don't wanna see individuals killed on the road. I don't wanna see that anymore. I have seen plenty of that, and I don't wanna see any more of it.

James Blain 0:36

Hey there, everybody, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Ground Transportation Podcast. I am James Blain of PAX Training, as always. Unfortunately, I don't have my co-host, Ken, today. But I gotta tell you, the person I do have, our guest for today, I couldn't be more excited. We have Derek Bars, the FMCSA administrator. Derek, I can't tell you how excited we are to have you focused on our segment of the industry, to have you really understand what we're doing, being attentive, coming on the podcast. I can't thank you enough for everything you're doing, Derek.

Derek Barrs 1:05

Sir, it's it's an honor and a privilege for me to be here with you. I really appreciate that so much. You're very generous. So I'm looking forward to the conversation today as we talk about, transportation safety in general, and I know we're gonna talk a lot about Motorcoach and the importance because that's what you do. But I am excited about it.

James Blain 1:21

Well, I gotta tell you, I think one of the other things that's big for me is knowing your background. I want you to share a little bit about your background, kinda how you came up and how you get to the role you're in. Because I gotta say, in terms of understanding what we do, in terms of understanding the industry, in terms of actually being out there, you have some real pedigree, my friend.

Derek Barrs 1:42

Well, I do appreciate that very much. I'm very humble. I'm very thankful for the opportunity that I've been afforded, uh, to work, with a great group of individuals at FMCSA and be able to help drive the direction of enhancing safety. But just to kinda give you a little bit of background for your listeners and people that are watching, I'm from a small town in North Florida, right on the Georgia border. a multi-generational Floridian. There's very few of those folks left in Florida, just saying.

James Blain 2:10

yeah, I thought everybody came down from New York, and that made up most of Florida,

Derek Barrs 2:14

my daddy used to say they used to live so far back in the woods that the sun set between their house and town, so that was, uh, kinda how far back in the woods they used to live. But, I'm proud of where I'm from. I'm proud of the community that I grew up in, and that's really where I learned, uh, number one, about how to treat people and people treated you, and that you should look out for one another. I mean, family is very important to me. and again, your community ends up being kind of that. when I was, a young guy, in my teenagers, I mean, law enforcement was kind of the thing where I really liked that. The sheriff in my town was just kind of my... You know, everybody's like Superman or whatever idol that you've got, he was that for me. he always, took care of people, and that was, something that I just so admired. And he took time with me. so when I was a teenager, he hired me. I started off as a dispatcher- I then worked in the jail. I've done every little as- uh, job that you could do at a sheriff's office. I was a patrol deputy. I've done some investigations. school resource officer. Uh, that was one of the best jobs I ever had by the way. you talk about having an impact on individuals and people, work with kids. but anyways, fast-forward a little bit and decided I felt like I needed a change. He was retiring from his job, and I found this job called Motor Carrier Compliance with the state, and it ended up being with the Florida Highway Patrol. I had no idea what that was. None. Um, said it was about trucks, it was about trucks and buses. I'm like, we'll, we'll figure this out." So anyways, I, I, w- I, of course, I got hired, and First day I showed up at the academy, 'cause I'd already been in law enforcement for 10 years when I took this job, and I was like, "Man, this is a lot different." I mean, I'm inspecting trucks. I'm learning how to inspect trucks, how to inspect buses, uh, which was different type of law enforcement work 'cause you had to learn how to do that.

James Blain 4:12

Right.

Derek Barrs 4:13

so anyways, I come home. I remember telling my family, I was like, "I don't know about all this grease on me every day coming home doing this." I said, "This is not quite what I thought I was signing up for."

James Blain 4:24

and, and I don't, I don't wanna date you, but what year is this, and what kind of training did they give you? Is this something where... Uh, cause obviously regulations and, and all of this world has changed a ton.

Derek Barrs 4:34

Yeah, well, I'm not, I'm not that old now. Don't get me wrong. So I... This was, this was, like, 2000-ish. so this is 25 years ago,

James Blain 4:42

Yeah.

Derek Barrs 4:43

So it had changed. I mean, I went through part A, part B. I did HAZMAT. I did motor coach. I did... Had all of those types of training that you had to have to be a roadside inspector and a roadside trooper and those type things. and I loved it. I enjoyed that so much. I got end up getting promoted. I moved around the state a little bit. I promoted to lieutenant, captain, major, and then all the way up to, I was the chief of the Florida Highway Patrol's, Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Division, so I ran our statewide operations when it came to commercial vehicle operations, education outreach, all of our employees across the state. I was very fortunate to have that job. It was, a way to really make an impact. motor coach, uh, was really a part of that. one of the reasons why I had a lot of respect for the motor coach industry for one of the gentlemen that lived in my hometown, matter of fact, and my family used to go on tours with them.

James Blain 5:36

Oh, so you grew up on buses?

Derek Barrs 5:38

so I used to go on tours. for example, I used to go to Tennessee. We... I was a Florida Gator fan. We would ta- he would take trips to, to Nashville and things of that nature, And then he was just a household name in our community, of being able to do motor coach operations, and that's what I see across this industry anyways. There's a lot of household names in communities where, uh, motor coach operators are. And so had a lot of respect. And he, uh, used to allow me, when I was working for the state, I used to go in and get my inspections. I would come in and inspect his buses and things of that nature, throughout the years. not just his, but I would go do some there. so fast-forward, I retired in 2020. I had 29 years of law enforcement service at that point. and then I stayed on the reserves, with the highway patrol during the time, between the time I retired until I actually started this job at FMCSA. But for a full-time job, I went to work for a, a consultant firm called HNTB Corporation, and I did a lot of work related to commercial operations, traffic incident management, and helping Department of Transportations across the country that, we had contracts with, when it comes to any type of project that they may have that I was suited to help them to do. I worked on the border for about two years, working on a commercial vehicle plan to help kinda alleviate, uh, and give recommendations to the state of how they could move commercial vehicles more efficiently and effectively across the border, so I did that for about a year and a half, two years.

James Blain 7:08

Wow.

Derek Barrs 7:08

And then I had some folks that came to me and asked me would I be interested in putting my name in the hat for the FMCSA administrator. I'm like, "Yeah, I'm sure. Uh, yes, uh, uh, how do you turn that down,

James Blain 7:19

do you say no, right?

Derek Barrs 7:21

Well, I did say, let me pray about it, um, because I need to make sure that's the right thing for me. Is that the right thing for my family and where I am in my life?" And so of course, prayed about it, and I felt like it was the right thing for me to do. Number one, it does go back to, you know, there's not very many times in my life that I would probably get a presidential appointment with a Senate confirmation, uh, as a job. So I was like, "You know, but you can also make some meaningful change."

James Blain 7:48

Yeah. Leave an impact.

Derek Barrs 7:51

and so anyways, you know the process I went through. It was like I was nominated by the President in March of last year, and then was not actually confirmed by the Senate until October of last year, so that amount of time. So I felt like I had, like, three jobs going on. I was still trying to maintain my current job. I was actually sitting on the local school board in my county at the time as well.

James Blain 8:14

I, I thought you were on school board at one point.

Derek Barrs 8:16

I was, and then I was still trying to, you know, navigate the, confirmation process.

James Blain 8:23

Yeah.

Derek Barrs 8:24

Um, school board, it has a good way of working things out. I don't really like to tell this because I don't like to lose, but I'll tell this story because I think it matters. I ran for a local school board. We have like 130,000 people in the county that I live in. We have think we have like 40,000 voters in that particular race.

James Blain 8:42

Okay.

Derek Barrs 8:43

I lost by 288 votes.

James Blain 8:48

That's it.

Derek Barrs 8:50

they called me and said, "Congratulations," and then they had a refresh, and I was ahead by like 1,000 and something, and they had a refresh in the system. I was doing a radio interview congratulating me on winning.

James Blain 9:01

Oh, no.

Derek Barrs 9:03

and then they said, "Whoops, sorry, you lost by 288 votes." It was pretty depressing.

James Blain 9:09

Oh.

Derek Barrs 9:10

a month later, uh, someone on the local school board resigned. The governor appoints me to fill out the position. I say all that to say this, is that if I had won that election, I would've been obligated the way I am. I'd have been obligated to the voters, and I would have turned down the position,

James Blain 9:32

for...

Derek Barrs 9:33

or even entertained the position because I was obligated to the voters who had elected me to that position.

James Blain 9:41

Yeah.

Derek Barrs 9:42

So I did not have that same type of obligation by being appointed, so I did my time for a year on the school board and really, really loved it. if you wanna make a difference in your community, get involved in your schools. I will say that. And we also had a truck driving school at the school district that I was in, and I liked to be in... I was involved in that and other things as well from education. And every kid does not need to go to college. Every kid may need to learn a trade or whatever that is, is best for that kid. We don't need to put individuals in boxes, and I was really a proponent of that and making sure that we were, uh, had the resources, had the opportunities for students that wanted to do HVAC or plumbing or truck driving, motor coach operation. Whatever that is, I wanted to make sure that we were doing that. So again, October, here I am. That was a long story to get to here we are today eight months later, and we've... Our team has really been pushing forward to make sure that we can make the necessary changes that are not just changes today, but they are sustainable changes that will actually save lives. that's my ultimate goal.

James Blain 12:01

Well, I think for me, so, so two things. One, I'ma pay your, your colleagues back in Florida Highway Patrol a compliment. I gotta tell you, I was very impressed with them because we did an event out in Florida, and they had the cool little orange patches. And I said, "Oh, my kids would love one of those." And they had one orange patch. And you wanna talk about making an impact, the officer that is out there with us in Orlando when we were at this event, he says, "Hey, give me your home address and give me your kids' names, and I'll make sure each one gets one." And I gotta tell you, in today's day and age, getting mail is an ordeal, right? And so you talk about making an impact. Little things like that make an impact. If you go in my kids' rooms, they've got their little highway patrol orange patches from Florida, right? and stuff like that really matters. And being a father, I can tell you, you know, it's one of those things. They say having kids changed your life, and everybody says that, but it's true. And I think the people that understand that tend to focus more on impact and legacy and long-term thinking. And being someone that's in training and safety for a living, I now think about that more than I ever did, so I think that's huge.

Derek Barrs 13:05

Well, your legacy is all the good things that you're doing, all the things that I can look back on with all these things that, my family will say, "You got all this I love me stuff on the wall, it's great." but at the end of the day, your family, those are the people that are always gonna be there with you through the thick and thin, hopefully. And, uh, the ones that are trying to help and guide you and direct you and give you that, reassurance of what you need to do to go out to do the good work that, that you're doing, that I feel like that I'm doing, and what our team are, are, are doing here at FMCSA. but you gotta have that grounding. You gotta have that foundation, just like you have to have that great foundation from a safety culture into a business. You have to have that same foundation at home as well.

James Blain 13:48

Well, I think one of the things that makes this industry really unique, especially on the motor coach side, is that there are so many family businesses, right? You see so many generational companies, and I think part of the neat thing there is it gives this long industry memory, right? You go to an industry event, I can't tell you how many times I've sat down for lunch or I've been somewhere And I'm getting, you know, oh, well, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, and I'm able to get the whole story and bring it all the way through. And I think there's a lot to be said about the fact that these things are being passed down. And so I think you've really kind of hit on something on the industry. Now, one of the things that I, I know everybody is, is gonna ask about or is gonna wanna know about is the passenger carrying division, right? And, you know, obviously this is before your tenure, and I haven't been in the industry as long as some, but when I got in, we had a pretty strong division. There was five people. I remember Loretta was the, uh, head. Then we had a team lead, then we had three specialists. And I gotta tell you, there was tons of industry knowledge there and institutional knowledge there. The big thing for me that I remember was when I first got in, even as we were seeing people in the chauffered services side start to come up, we'd see engagement there. And then over time, we kind of saw that knowledge kind of come out a little bit and seep away. Um, Loretta moved on. She left the passenger carrying division. We didn't see a direct replacement there. we saw it kind of shrink even more. I, I'd see Pete, I'd see Danielle Smith. And then the next thing you know, you know, Pete's moved on, Danielle's retired, and we kind of end up in this place where, and again, I'm gonna preface this completely before your tenure, where we had kind of this lack of a passenger carrying division. And, and I remember everyone in the industry, it was kind of this thing where nobody really knew what to expect. Now, thankfully, we got Cliff, we got Roger. They also came in from the trucking side and they've been doing all kinds of great work getting caught up. I think one of the things that's really on everyone's mind is, you know, knowing your level of involvement, knowing how much this industry means to you, what does it look like to you in terms of how that passenger carrying division is gonna look and act and feel? And how does that institutional knowledge get built back up, and how do you plan to kind of re-strengthen that division?

Derek Barrs 16:16

all those individuals that you named, brought a ton of, credibility, a lot of knowledge to the industry, and when you lose that, it's hard to rebuild it back up, and it takes time. the passenger carrier and the bus i-industry is very important to me. our mission is very clear. we say that we're to reduce crashes and fatalities in large trucks, and what else? Buses. and so that's, uh, to me is a equal playing field. And understanding that there's more, of course, on the, the property carrying side and so forth compared to motorcoach, and I get that. But my point is, is that it's important to me. our, uh, director of enforcement and compliance, Tom Liberatore, and then we have Bill Mahoney is our, the chief over that division, and he's helping to coordinate, uh, and some of the vacancies that we have. And we do have vacancy. We don't, we don't just have some vacancies in, in motorcoach. I have some in hazmat. I've got some in just r- uh, other divisions across the country. but we are in the process now of getting these job notifications out so we can begin hiring. We can looking to get folks into these positions so we can actually do more work. And we've done a lot of work, but I think about all the things that we will be able to do once we get these new individuals on board and be able to have that strategic direction in hazmat, in motor coach, in, special investigative unit right now. I'm just using some of the specialty stuff that we have. but also just doing the everyday work. And one of the things we have to do is we have to not just be thinking like this. We can't be so narrow focused, like, "Oh my gosh, this is the only job that I do." Well, no, it's not the only job that you do. Um, and we, we have CDL problems, as we know. so my point is that everyone has to come together, and we've taken an approach of borderless FMCSA. And kinda what I mean by that is if I got an issue that's going on in the Midwest, but I need resources that can help me from the South, then we're gonna pull resources from the South to go help the Midwest or the West or vice versa, when it comes to certain investigations or operations that we have going on to be able to get a handle on this. And I don't know that that's necessarily been done in the past, but we have to break down these arbitrary lines that we put into place that this is one region or this region or this specialty unit. we all have to work together, and I'm saying all this to circle back that the passenger carrier piece is very important to me that we're able to bring this back up. But it takes time to get the people who, have the knowledge that is needed, to be in some of these specialty units.

James Blain 19:02

I think it's also important to bring up here, where you and I met originally, we were at the UMA event down in Birmingham, Alabama. And I gotta tell you, I don't know that I can remember a single regulator that has gotten a standing ovation like you did that night when you gave your speech. You know, the, the fact that you have been there, the fact that you are continually showing up, when I saw things get to the point where we lost that passenger carrying division, I think there was a lot of people that might have thought, "Hey, you know, they might have forgot about us," or, or, "Hey, we might not be, you know, where we were before." But I gotta tell you, the fact that you have been showing up, the fact that you are there, the fact that you are pushing, the fact that we are seeing everything that you are saying getting done, I think says a ton about what you're doing and what we have to look forward to.

Derek Barrs 19:46

that's just not a one-off, and I say this a lot on, okay, we're, we're just not showing up one time to get an accolade or, or whatever the people wanna think. our job is to be engaged and be a good partner and to do these things, not today, not tomorrow, but long-term. this should be our culture. That is our culture. That's what we're building here at the agency, is that we are accessible. We wanna listen to the concerns. I mean, I've got something right here that's related to motor coach right now here on my desk that is, My point is, is that I ha- the accessibility for the industry to get to me at my level, it should be fairly easy. I mean, everyone knows that I'm accessible. If I can't talk to you right away, I've got a deputy, I've got a senior policy advisor, I've got people across the country that will answer these issues and these concerns to be able to address what needs to be addressed. I always say, and I said it at ABA, for example, is that we're open for business, and what I mean by that is we're open, accessible to work with our customer, and you are our customer. And you don't have a successful business if you don't take care of your customer. need this to be long-term and sustainable, and that's the culture that I'm trying to build with our team, that long-term partnerships, outreach, education, and enforcement have to be our pillars that we work in. Um, and we have to work within those pillars to make sure that we are successful, and I think they all hold an equal part of the direction that we're going.

James Blain 21:20

Yeah. Well, and I think you bring up a really important part because I think, you know, a-as someone who just did the legislative fly-in, I think sometimes there's the view that people have of government and regulation and these different groups, and then there's kind of the reality And it's really easy when someone isn't involved, when people aren't there to form opinions, to do things. When people are working together, when you're, when you're collaborating with someone like you're talking about, it's completely different. You know, I will never forget when I met Danielle Smith, who was formerly with FMCSA, has now moved to, to Lancer Insurance on the private side. You know, she was at a chauffeured services event, right? They were doing a black car event, but that industry has moved a lot towards these mini coaches and the mini buses, and now they're moving into the motor coach space. And she was there giving an educational talk. And I remember being really impressed with the fact that it wasn't, "Hey, here's what's coming down. Here's what you have to do." It's, "Hey, here's what you need to understand. Here's how it affects you. Here's how it affects your business. Here's the why of it." You know, so many times you see people come through, and the rule's the rule's the rule, right? You know, because I say so. And so I think now seeing this shift is huge for our industry and huge for our ability to collaborate. Let me ask you, are there any key things that kinda jump out at you or that you think about that are keys in that space?

Derek Barrs 22:44

Well, I wanna go back and, if I can, a little bit. And you're absolut- you're absolutely right, is that at the end of the day, it should be about, you know, we... Everyone wants compliance. we should. And because if you're compliant and you're doing the things that are set forth, then we believe and we think that the rules, the laws that are in place, you know, if we comply with those, that we're gonna have some really good safety outcomes. and I do believe that. Uh, do I believe, and we're continuously working through this at the agency, that there are rules and regulations that are on our books that are redundant and that they hinder business and operations? Yes. And that we continue to go through those and have our deregulatory sprints, uh, to pull those regulations off, uh, for the future, I think is a good thing. But we also have to make sure that we are tightening up every single loophole that we can for individuals that will exploit, for the bad actors to come in and do the things that should not be done, which then is a detriment to the organizations that you talked about, the family-owned businesses, the people that are doing things the right way, who are training their, uh, drivers, who are, have a safety culture that is built on making sure they're doing the right thing from the bottom up, and from the top down. And so those things, I believe, are really, really, really important that we have to, to continue to do. And we have to educate. You can't come in and say, "This is the way it's gonna be." of course you can do that, and that's the enforcement arm, but there's also an educational piece, and we have to be open and listening. No one's always 100% right, and we all need to have that dialogue is my point, uh, being able to address things. I mean, there, there's plenty of people that have a lot to say. but I think how do we get there constructively to solve the problem? that to me is what's very important

James Blain 24:37

I'll give you a great example. You know, when, when the ELDT regulations came out and we started reading through the ELDT regulations, we started looking through it. and there are times that you read it and you go, "Okay, on the motor coach side, I totally understand that when you get a Class B license, you have the ability to go drive a straight truck, right?" So I think there's things that need to overlap and be there. But I also think that it's, it's really important that we understand that when those types of things get put in place, we have a voice and we have an ability to reach out and work with you guys. Because I think one of the big fears and one of the concerns that have come up is, hey, you know, that ELDT gets put in place, we're kind of an afterthought, or they kind of, you know, tacked us onto the back of it or, or we got tacked onto the back. And I'm not saying that's what happened by any means, but that's always a sentiment that you hear. I think one of the strongest ways to get ahead of that is exactly what you're talking about, Derek, and that's knowing that we have the ability to reach out. We know that we have the ability to be involved. We know that we have the ability to be there. And the fact that, when everybody is working on the safety side and trying to give the safest, best service possible, that's when you start seeing things come together. And I can tell you as someone that, uh, I was appointed to the BISC board. I had a lot to learn. I was, you know, uh, uh, surrounded by people who've got 40, 50 years experience, and I'm trying to learn. But the one thing that I found that was always the guiding principle there is, what do we do to make sure we're operating safely, we're doing the right thing? And so I think what you're saying 100% lines up with the industry. And the fact that we've got an ally like you that we're working with is gonna be huge.

Derek Barrs 26:13

Yeah, I'll-- Real quick, I was like, you're talking about your guiding principles, and I think that our vision has to continue to be... I mean, we talk about our mission. If I sit down with our folks, we have a meeting, I say, you know, "What is our focus? what is our mission? What is it we do?" And we have to say that over and over again. And then we have a vision. I'll just read it real quick. The FMCSA advances commercial motor vehicle safety nationwide through clear and transparent communication, impactful outreach, practical education and guidance, and disciplined working together to reduce crashes, uphold accountability, at the end of the day, save lives. I mean, that's our vision of where we're going and the direction, and I think-- and it goes back to those core pillars that I mentioned, and I think all of the-- your companies have that. You got your communication, you got your outreach, you got your education, and you have to have enforcement. If you do not have enforcement for people who are not doing it the right way, it's kinda like raising those kids that you and I were talking about. You have children at home. If you don't, if you don't raise your kids and you don't discipline your kids, and you don't have enforcement like that, then what is the potential outcome?

James Blain 27:18

Right.

Derek Barrs 27:19

and, and I kinda-- and I go back again, we talk about this a lot about the small things. it doesn't take a whole lot to reach out. It doesn't take a whole lot for us to communicate. and, and I always recently, and, uh, it's one of the, the best, in my opinion, it's one of the best speeches that's ever been... This man was, has ever given, is, uh, Admiral McRaven when he talks about-- everybody's kinda heard this. You know, if you wanna change the world, and his comment in his thing is if you wanna change the world, the first thing you have to start off by doing is make your bed.

James Blain 27:55

It's true.

Derek Barrs 27:58

the point of that is that you have to do the small things,

James Blain 28:01

Right.

Derek Barrs 28:03

we will continue to do the small things, and it's easy to talk about it, but we have to do it. If you have to do the small things, those small things will build up and build up to be large things, and you will accomplish so much if you can just do the small things. That's why it's so important to me and to our team that we are accessible. I have a bunch of business cards that people give me that I keep in a box. But what I do before I put those in those boxes, I make sure that we send... If I haven't come in contact with someone, I have an email address to say, "It was, it was nice to, to see you at wherever recently,"

James Blain 28:42

Right.

Derek Barrs 28:43

least give that acknowledgement back to those individuals that, you know, I acknowledge you, and we talked. we communicated. Now, I might not remember every single word by any means, but I just do-- I just think it's very, very important for us to do that, and that's how we can solve problems. and the little things do matter is my point. I didn't mean to go off on a tangent.

James Blain 29:02

Look, I'm gonna tell you right now, you've actually teed me up for one of my favorite quotes, and that's, "If you take care of the small things, the big things will work themselves out."

Derek Barrs 29:09

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I have one that's probably really crazier than that too. it's about a pimple on your face, so I won't go there.

James Blain 29:16

Well, well, well, I'm ve- I'm very sorry to our audience. We'll, we'll, we'll discuss that one after the, the episode and No, but, but here's the thing. I mean, I, I think, I think one of the things that comes up a lot, especially when you're talking about, big issues, and you've brought it up, is there's a lot of different views. And I think one of the things that you've pointed out that's really important is, you know, you are out there doing the follow-up. You are out there, you know, when you meet someone, you're getting that card, you're responding. I gotta tell you, you know, I- you've got an incredible staff. I was lucky enough to have Casey in our office and myself get to work with them to get this scheduled, and I gotta tell you, I mean, they, they made it very clear. They said, "Hey, you know, we- we're going to figure this out. We've got our travel schedules. This is important to Derek. It's gonna get done." And so I think a lot of that is, is when you're working with people that understand and that get that and that make things clear that they're a priority and that your industry and what you're doing is a priority, it's huge. And it's funny because one of the things I say all the time is, "When transportation's done right, transportation is transparent." So it really needs to kind of make sure that when we're talking about these subjects, you've almost got to bring things up and bring them to the forefront because, kinda like we talked about taking care of the small things, there's something I teach my kids. If we're driving down the road and we see an accident, we see something happen, anything happen, I have taught them to become comfortable with the cell phone and with 911. And they know you call 911, you stay calm, you give the information, you ask if it's been reported. If it hasn't, you provide them all the details. If it has, you get off the line, right? and the reason I teach them that is there's this thought that if everybody's seen it, it's already gotten mentioned, it's already been taken care of. Somebody must have already called it in. I can't tell you how many times I've seen something or something's happened, and I'm calling that in, and they're going, "No, no one's reported it yet. We'll get someone out there." And I think that applies to life as well, so I think we can't emphasize enough that communication factor.

Derek Barrs 31:16

Well, you always depend on just because you think somebody's gonna do something, it's gonna get done either. And you do have to follow up. you want people to do those things, but we all know that, things happen, things people forget or something like that. I don't like to forget anything, but matter of fact, it, it, but it happens. but the same thing to your point is don't just always assume that somebody else is doing those things. and so you need to do 'em. and I've also been, this is, I don't think this has anything to do what we're talking about, but my daddy used to always say, he used to always say, "Do the things nobody else wants to do."

James Blain 31:48

yep my dad's favorite saying was, "The things that you wanna do the least are the things you need to do the most." Same, same sentiment, so...

Derek Barrs 31:56

Yeah, that's for sure. But at the end of the day, it comes back to th-this industry and, and, you know, the amount of people that are moved in this industry on a daily basis. I was recently on the border, for example, and we were... I did do a level one on a bus while I was there,

James Blain 32:11

I love that, by the way.

Derek Barrs 32:13

probably one of your listeners out there or something like that, one of his buses. but

James Blain 32:16

it passed with flying colors, right?

Derek Barrs 32:18

It did. It actually was a good inspection, was able to communicate with the driver. Uh, so it was a, a really... It was a good inspection. but you know, I, I believe in those. I believe in the inspection process. I believe that it matters. and I believe when you, take those vehicles or those drivers, if they're not compliant with the rules or regulation, they fall into those categories, I do believe it matters. and so, of course, if I didn't, I wouldn't do it. but anyways, at the border with the amount of traffic that comes across, for example, from motor coach and buses that are coming across every single day is just for an example. Here in DC, for example, the amount of tour buses that are bringing students in every single day or, taking from one event to the next event, I mean, they're, they're everywhere here. And then we have, the FIFA Cup stuff coming across for the America 250. so moving passengers back and forth. My point is, is that it's a large industry, and it's doing a lot of good things for this country. we talk about the movement of freight, for example, the things that we eat. You know, 70% of, uh, uh, everything that we have comes by truck. But just think about the amount of people that are being moved every single day in the motor coach industry and just buses. I mean, a lot of your listeners are also contracted with a school district and are moving kids from, home to school and school to home and events and things like that. we can't forget about all of those types of transportation needs that are out there that this industry provides. it's a big story, and it's a really positive story that should be shouted at the rooftops about, uh, being able to get people across America. some people don't like to fly. I mean, flying is one mode of transportation. Being on a motor coach is another. Being in a car is another. those are people's preferences and options that they have. But the motor coach industry, I don't know that I've ever come in contact with a motor coach operator for the most part, I'm not gonna say every time because that is not accurate, because I have put some bad drivers out of service for driving a motor coach, but in general terms, are some of the most professional individuals that you will find.

James Blain 34:33

Yeah.

Derek Barrs 34:35

and I think that's a testament to the companies that are out here that are trying to do the right thing, and the culture they're building

James Blain 34:43

I think something that you've hit on, and I think it's really important. You know, I, I'm, I'm involved across various associations, across all kinds of different verticals in passenger transportation. And I think one of the big things that we all agree on is that there are illegal operators out there, and there are people that are trying to cut the corners. You know, you look at some of my best customers, my guys I love working with, the clients that I consider friends, almost every single one of them is going to tell you point blank, "We look at the regulation as the bare minimum." Like, "That's not our standard," right? "Our standard is up here. This is the bare minimum. We need to make sure everybody else is here, because even though we're up here, we can't have anyone below that." And so I think that's one of the big things as well is, is I think for me especially, I can tell you one of my sensitive topics is always gonna be school bus. You know, for me, there is nothing, as a parent, there is nothing more important that you could possibly do than transport kids. I think one of the other things that we've kind of had to fight over the years is the general view and impression of what it is to be in that job. I look at, you know, even "The Simpsons," right? You got Otto with the headphones and, kind of that look, and then you get this idea of a fat, lazy bus driver. as you've mentioned, a lot of these guys are professionals. They care about what they do. They're taking your kids to school. They're taking people to work. They're doing all these incredible things. And so I think for me, a big part of it is the image and the understanding, and I think part of how we shift that and part of how we do it is the view in Washington, the way that we're perceived, all those types of things. Let me ask you, as someone that is now part of the federal government, what would you say is kind of how our industry is viewed or how we're kind of thought of when you're speaking to other branches of the government?

Derek Barrs 37:41

it's, it's surely not negative by any means. I would think that for the most part it's a positive feel of the motor coach industry. I really, really do. I go back to and say that, around 2015 or so, there was a lot of focus on motor coach operators who were not doing the right thing. There was a lot of hours of service violations. there was a lot of complaints that were coming in, people not doing the right thing. and this is what happens with, uh, the industry overall, whether it's motor coach or passenger. It can be any career, it doesn't matter. That these bad actors that are not doing the right thing, put a black eye on the people that are doing the right thing.

James Blain 38:20

Absolutely.

Derek Barrs 38:22

that's the reason why you have to root this mess out, and that's why you have to be aggressive, and you have to have strong enforcement, and you have to let folks know that you're not gonna put up with the garbage that's out there. You know, there are chameleon carriers in the motor coach industry, just like there are on the passenger carrier side. I mean, on the, property carrying side. There are people who skirt the system to get a CDL on the motor coach side as there are on the property carrying side. But you have to approach all of these together. they're not just like, "Well, you got this problem over here. It's not over there." It's in the transportation industry as a whole, and we need to acknowledge those things, and we need to try to fix them. And through some of our rules and regulations that we are in the process of pushing out, whether that's non-domiciled, of making sure that, you're vetted properly to get a CDL all the way to new entrant, carriers who wanna come into the system and what that looks like, raising the bar, all the way to entry-level driver training, that you're training people to do a professional job. This is not a fly-by-night organization or job, and we need to quit thinking or don't have that mentality, in my opinion, because these people, these individuals, these folks go out every single day and transport precious cargo, individuals.

James Blain 39:42

Right.

Derek Barrs 39:43

And number two, they're transporting property across this country, hazardous materials across this country. These are professional drivers, and the standard should be a little bit higher.

James Blain 39:55

Oh, absolutely. it's funny 'cause you've hit on a place where I live, and that's that, it's one thing to be a driver, it's another thing to be a professional, right? It's gotta be a completely different level, and you've gotta have a different mindset. And I think you've also hit on something that is really important, and that's that, you know, you've identified that although there might be the same problems, you've got the motor coach world and the trucking world, right? I think one of the things that we've seen in the past, and I think one of the concerns that we hear a lot is people think, "Oh, well, they're the same," right? It is, they're, they're both commercial vehicles, they're both the same, it's all the same piece. And I think understanding the uniqueness of each one is what puts you in a very good place to be able to help and change and really take us to a place that I don't think we've been before and we need to be, where professionally- Everything is exactly as it should be. I also know you've been really active with CVSA, and I'd love to have you kind of talk a little bit, because again, I think a big thing for a long time has been, hey, you know, we're kind of the afterthought. Trucking is the 90, we're the 10. Sometimes we feel like the 1%, but I think that's shifting, and I think you're doing a lot there. I was having a conversation recently. I was in DC, we were walking back to the hotel, and I was talking with someone and they said, "You know, we're, we're thinking about getting involved in CVSA, and we're not really sure where, you know, motor coach fits and what's going on there," and most of that conversation would be about trucking. You know, how do you see motor coach's role there, and what would you tell those operators? Obviously, you've already told them that you have open communication yourself. With that involvement in CVSA and with FMCSA's involvement in CVSA, what would you tell people about that?

Derek Barrs 41:40

Well, I mean, I'm not advocating for membership for anybody, you know, necessarily. Um, uh, what I advocate for is the safety side, and if you have something that you want to advocate when it comes to safety with motor coach, you should be involved in whether it's CVSA or whatever group that that happens to be. the out-of-service criteria applies to motor coach, and so if you wanna have a voice when it comes to what's in the out-of-service criteria, CVSA is your venue to be able to voice those concerns, or you feel like there needs to be something that's brought forward to, uh, CVSA. But I would also be remiss if I didn't say that there are a lot of good things that we need to be talking about in the motor coach industry, and maybe having those broader conversations in the passenger carrier committee, for example, at CVSA, you start talking about the things that you're doing. I think they do that. I don't really know, to be honest with you, if they've done that recently. I'm sure they have. but over the years I know they have. But I would just say that that is a way, "Hey, I've got something I would present." Talk to the committee chair and say, uh, again, I keep saying the word say, but, uh, that we want to make sure that you're getting the information out that you want to get pushed out and work collaboratively with that organization or any other organization that wants to work with the motor coach industry. I think that's very, very important. But from the CVSA question specifically, um, I think that is a way for you to do that and to bring to light about the really good things that are happening in the organization and to the law enforcement individuals that are there to get a better idea of what's going on, and you all are best suited for that in the industry for that to be able to do that. and one thing I've always said about even enforcement, and when I was back in Florida, when we had great relationships with the associations,

James Blain 43:34

Derek.

Derek Barrs 43:35

w- am remissed, again, if I don't say that goes back, you said this, probably 20 minutes ago, is why. Why are you doing this? Why do you have your business? Why do you do enforcement? Why do you have this job? Why are you so passionate about this or that, whatever that happens to be. And I tell our folks all the time, "You have to be... You have to know what your why is." And my why is I don't wanna see individuals killed on the road. I don't wanna see that anymore. I have seen plenty of that, and I don't wanna see any more of it. that's kinda my, standard comment to get people to realize, and I can always go into detail about what that looks like if you want. But my point is, is that I don't wanna see that anymore.

James Blain 44:23

Right.

Derek Barrs 44:24

I think that, that's, that's my why, and let's do all we can to work together instead of against one another.

James Blain 44:33

I don't know that you could say that any better, Derek, and I think one of the things that we have come up, and it's a theme that we've heard time and time again, there's two major themes that seem to come up from everyone we've had that's been successful in their position. The first is mentorship. You already talked about that because the sheriff in your hometown became your mentor from what you've told us, right? He inspired you, and look at how far you've made it. You're now the administrator of FMCSA. Yeah I think that that also brings up another huge theme that comes up all the time, and that's association involvement and, regulatory involvement. and it's the reason, I can tell you right now, the first time that I went to DC was actually with the National Limousine Association, and it was their fly-in. And we did that event 'cause I was curious what it looked like, and then I was involved with the Transportation Alliance. they do NEMT, paratransit, taxi. I went and did their fly-in. And then, you know, now I'm involved with UMA and theirs. and for me, you know, I found that that's one of my big ones because it's our opportunity to be able to get in front of the legislators. I also love events like BISC, which hopefully we'll have you at. You know, BISC, when we do those, you know, a lot of times you've got local law enforcements coming in, highway patrol, all those types of people. So I think if there was really a single theme here, I think that theme is just that involvement and that communication. let me ask you, as we close this out, if there was one thing you had to leave people with as we end this episode, what's the one thing you'd want to leave the listeners with?

Derek Barrs 46:06

I think it goes back to what I said earlier, do the small things. And from a safety standpoint, I'll just give you a classic example, if you got a marker light on your motor coach, change it.

James Blain 46:17

Yeah.

Derek Barrs 46:18

if you're willing to do the small things, I think you'll probably do the big things as well. so I always revert back just to do the small things. from a motor coach operation standpoint, this is outside of safety, but take care of your people. You know, taking care of people, you know, they're your biggest asset, and we need to try to do our best to take care of our people. But from a safety standpoint, always do the small things and let's continue to work together and to collaborate with one another so we can advance safety forward. even when it's hard, even when it's a tough conversation, I think We need to have those robust conversations, but they need to be in a way of solving a problem instead of divide. I'm about trying to solve the problem and not trying to create a divide with anyone. I wanna try to bring us together in how we can work things out to come up with a good solution that's gonna be safety-oriented. one last thing to tell you, you'd hit a while ago about how, school buses are important. So you can't see that picture right there, it says, but

James Blain 47:17

Oh, we'll get it from you. We're gonna put that on

Derek Barrs 47:19

that, that's when I was a school board member and we would get up early at 4:00 in the morning to go out and meet our bus drivers and before they would go out on their, on their routes, because how important it is to take care of those drivers as they're going to take the precious cargo that I say in and around our community. So those things are very, very important.

James Blain 47:40

I couldn't agree with you more. I gotta tell you, for me, I'm a family guy too, and there is, in my mind, nothing more important you could ever have on board than your kids. I can't thank you enough for coming on, Derek. I think it's been absolutely great. We- we're gonna love to have you back on again if you've got time. can't wait to see all the incredible things that you do. And, uh,

Derek Barrs 48:01

Well, I think if you don't mind, what we'll do is we'll spread the wealth around, and we'll, maybe bring someone from our motor coach division and start talking And once we get the new folks in and have you talk to the actual director that's over the motor coach operations, I think maybe we can do a side-by-side or something like that. We're here to support you all, and I just want the motor coach industry to know how much we appreciate them from FMCSA, and we're here to work with you, as we move forward in the years to come.

James Blain 48:27

You know, I, I think we'd love nothing more. Like I said, I think having those strong communication channels and being able to get that information out there is key, so we look forward to that. And thank you again for coming on. To all our listeners, thank you so much. Remember, subscribe, like, leave our comments, leave your thoughts. If there's things that, obviously, as, as Derek's mentioned, we're gonna have more people on. If there are things that you have, questions, information, anything you wanna know, we will give you guys information so you guys can reach out. And as always, thanks again for listening to the Ground Transportation Podcast.

Speaker 2 48:58

Thank you for listening to the ground transportation podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe to the show on apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information about PAX training and to contact James, go to PAX training.com. And for more information about driving transactions and to contact Ken, Go to driving transactions.com. We'll see you next time on the ground transportation podcast.