SPEAKER_02 0:00

We really like each other and that makes a huge difference. We're getting to uh work accomplished. And we all work really well and work hard and we want the same things. Um, so we had this driver video, we had this why I love driving campaign. Um, we went basically on tour for a period of time.

SPEAKER_05 0:22

It was like I almost feel like we were in like a rock band.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

You're listening to the Ground Transportation Podcast with Ken Lucci of Driving Transactions and James Blaine of PAX Training. Learn how you can build a thriving transportation business with real profits, repeat clients, and enterprise value. And now for your host, Kenan James.

SPEAKER_05 0:49

Hello everybody, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Ground Transportation Podcast. Unfortunately, I do not have my partner in crime, Ken Lucci, with me today. I am sure he is out doing a massive MA deal that we will all hear about later. But I'm actually super excited about my guest today. It is someone that I have worked with a ton over the past couple years, and it's a little bit of a role shift for me because usually Aaron is leading the meetings, not me. So I kind of feel like I've taken the driver's seat. So for those of you that don't know Aaron Sulden, she is the CFO at Bloom Tour and Charter. But more importantly, she is the leader over at the driving force. So I'm super excited to talk. I'm a little nervous about this role reversal because usually you're leading, but I'm super excited to have you on. I can't thank you enough for agreeing to come on the podcast, Aaron.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Thank you so much. And I'm nervous as well because I'm not used to not being in control.

SPEAKER_05 1:40

So it's it's okay. At some point, I'm sure I'll hear like James, get back to work, focus.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

So all right.

SPEAKER_05 1:48

So you and I have an awesome history, and anybody that has been to an ABA event, anybody that's involved in women in buses, anybody that has gone there, I'm sure knows you. But I want to kind of I want to go back because you are in a role that we don't typically get to see at shows, right? The CFO is usually not the one super involved in a show. So I want to kind of go even further back and talk about like your background and your history. How do you get to be in the busing industry and then kind of walk us up to how you get so involved in the shows?

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Yeah, absolutely. Uh a fluke, as many to many people as getting into the bus industry. Um so after I graduated college, I worked in financial services for a little bit and um very corporate America. And then that position, um, the the building I was in was closing, so I had to make a decision do I transfer or do I look for another job? And I went with the look for another job row. And I'm gonna date myself, but it was back when there were still newspaper listings when I was looking for jobs, and they were on the internet, but that's how you look for them.

SPEAKER_05 2:57

Before the world just just to clarify, these are not paper news, these are newspapers that have gone online. Yeah, they're on the online. Um you're not going out to it on the news.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Before the world of Indeed, really. And I saw this job for an assistant controller at a bus company, and that was very close to where I was living. So I was like, uh, sure, I'll give it a shot. Never thought of the world of buses um in my life, other than I took a school bus. But almost 20 years later, here I am. So I started with a company as the assistant controller, and it's a third generation family-owned company, and we're proudly celebrating 80 years this year. And we are a school bus and mortar coach company.

SPEAKER_04 3:39

So as most So what's a controller? That's a really fancy word. Yeah, so small business company.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

It's an accounting position. Um so basically, like head accountant, if you will. When I started, typical is any family organization, you start in one role, but that really is just yeah, you have a box of hats and you're constantly swapping hats. Correct.

SPEAKER_05 4:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

That was just the the paper name of my job, but not my actual job. And that's really how things have progressed. Um, so at one point in time, uh back in 2010, you know, the owner came to me and said, Hey, we're gonna buy a tour division, you're gonna run it. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 4:23

God bless small business. Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Um, okay, great. I'd love to do that. Know nothing about tours.

SPEAKER_05 4:29

And are you doing ops at that point? Is it like, hey, you are gonna run the whole thing or financially, or what did it look like?

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Um, yeah, from pri so still to this day, I praise every tour. And yeah, we we've taken we took on a group tour division, and um, we have a retail tour division as well. And that again was in 2010, and now it's 2026. We run about 275 tours a year. I do have uh a really wonderful person under me for the operations end of the tours, but I still check every last piece of paper that leaves the building and every driver order and price everything. So that's really what dipped my toe into the ABA world and in tourism and uh kind of why you said you'd see me at a show is during that process. So I did work my way up in the interim also from controller to CFO, but always had this, or since 2010, this tour element under my umbrella as well. And then also our uh charter, then it transitioned into uh charter sales and marketing. I'm redoing our website right now. So there's a lot of hats that go on.

SPEAKER_04 5:45

You still have your box with all your hats.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Yes, yes. And it's the funny thing to me, it's just the personality of an accountant is not the personality of all the other hats that I wear.

SPEAKER_05 5:57

So so we know each other well enough. I will clarify, I don't know that you have the typical personality of an accountant. If we're if we're gonna if we're gonna just call you an accountant, I would say you're the most outgoing accountant I know.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

That's you know, I appreciate that. That's um been years in the making. I am an introvert at heart, um, but I think, you know, over the years, just putting yourself out there and engaging yourself has uh allowed me to be more comfortable and you know be able to talk to you today. It's not something I would have ever been able to do, you know, 10, 15 years ago. So my core is just the introvert, though.

SPEAKER_05 6:33

So it's okay, we're we're getting you out of the show.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 6:35

Let me ask then when you took over that charter division, I know you said you have someone on operations now. What did that look like when you stepped into that role? Is that something where it was already up and running and you kind of took over ops and everything? Or what what did that role look like and how did that kind of evolve over time?

SPEAKER_02 6:54

So we ended up purchasing a company that needed to get out quickly. So the clients came over and you know, we were already running the buses for them, which was, you know, they were just a strict tour company, so we were already providing the motor coach service for them. But as far as everything else, uh, you know, I just figured it out. I didn't have, I didn't have a mentor, I didn't have anyone. Uh fortunately, I am a very type A person, so attention to detail is, you know, something that I feel very strongly about. And to me, that's the key for success in tourism, is you know, making sure that everything is in place and for your customers. So that's uh really how that started. And I I didn't know what I was doing, and I really relied heavily on going to shows and you know being a sponge and absorbing as much as I can.

SPEAKER_05 7:51

So is that the start then of being involved in ABA and things like that? Is you were kind of figuring that out and you needed the information? Yes. Or okay, so and you said you guys did an acquisition in 2010 or was it before that?

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Yeah, in 2010.

SPEAKER_05 8:08

Okay. So how does that evolve then? Because it's so funny. I don't, you know, you said you didn't know what you're doing. All of my experience with you, and and for those that don't know, you head up the driving force. Like you're the one that keeps us all in line. The type A personality is there, but I don't know that we've ever had like Aaron doesn't know or Aaron hasn't figured out. So clearly you were able to put it together really quickly. What did that kind of look like when you got to ABA? Is that something where you know you you're just kind of going and learning and bringing the information back? Or is that something where it kind of, you know, like you said, you're a little bit introverted and you built out over time. What did that journey in there kind of look like?

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Well, I think it started just with attending every last thing that I could attend. Um, as far, you know, and that's still kind of my philosophy now when I go to a show.

SPEAKER_05 8:54

I was about to say that has not changed.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Yeah, that's my philosophy now. When I go to a show, I'm there to learn and meet people, talk to people, and just get as much out of the experience as possible. Um, but to your point, it's the fake it till you make it, you know.

SPEAKER_05 9:10

Buy the Rolex before you can afford it.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Yeah, so um, but no, overtime, and we didn't start off as big as we are today with tours, so it was, you know, some trial and error, and you know, there were some misses along the way. But our industry is really great, and there's a lot of people out there that really want to help and will guide you. Visitor bureaus are really a great resource for people who are in tourism that you know don't necessarily know what they're doing, they're there to promote their area and they really want you to succeed because that's how they succeed.

SPEAKER_05 9:43

It's so funny because I bounce between all of these different verticals inside of pasture ground transportation. And I think it's interesting to me because each one is a little different. But like you said, I have found that if you're going to the shows, you're putting in the time, you're you're literally just there and you're giving it 110% and you're trying to take as much as you can, that's where you really get the value. And you know, Ken and I have talked about on this podcast before. You see people all the time that show up at the shows, they're just hassing out business cards, they're just trying to go to the bar and they don't take advantage of it and they don't get the value. Let me ask you, did you ever find a mentor or what what kind of becomes the shift from going and being in all of these sessions to starting to get onto committees and involvement? What did that path end up looking like?

SPEAKER_02 10:32

The more I learned, the more I wanted to continue to learn, but also to share with others and help others. So um, one of the first things I got involved in is um marketplace education because that was something that is super education, it is very, very important to me. This can idea of continuous learning, which you know is part of our driving force, one of our core pillars.

SPEAKER_05 10:59

It's part of my business model, yeah. It's a creature acquired.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

So um being able to help shape the content that would be at marketplace was very interesting to me and also just gonna provide myself more value. Uh, I really wanted to have an opportunity to have professional and personal development. When you come into work every day, you know, you could live inside this bubble and nothing ever changes unless you have these resources. So that really was how am I going to uh make things better for myself? How am I gonna make things better for the company? I need ideas outside of myself and outside of these four walls. So that was um important to me, and that's why I really started to get myself involved. And then um I happened to go to a women in buses meeting one day, and you know, I was very intimidated to walk into that room, and at the time there was probably 30 people and I didn't know anyone, but I heard Kim Grivat speak, and she was such a warm and is such a warm and welcoming person, she made me want to get involved. Fast forward a couple years, I joined the leadership team um under membership, and one of the things that we felt was missing is we just didn't have this presence other than a meeting. So we didn't have a presence at Marketplace, and we wanted to um have a spot on the show floor where we could engage with people and we could meet other people, and that's kind of one of my big proudest accomplishments for my tenure under Women in Buses is getting this um visibility because we were just limited to women who were in a bus company, and that's not what we were. Um, but no one understood that so we had this space on the show floor and we grew our membership by 30 percent, which is in four days, just the length of the show.

SPEAKER_05 13:01

In that so for those who don't know, right? ABA does their event every year, which is Marketplace, right? That's their biggest event of the year. They bring everyone together. So you're telling me that in one show, women in buses grew 30%.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Yes, just by having visibility.

SPEAKER_05 13:14

Do you remember which show that was?

SPEAKER_02 13:15

I believe that was 2020 Omaha, where we met, James.

SPEAKER_05 13:19

Oh, yeah, tacos, tacos, which by the way, I will say, being a Kansas City guy, that was an interesting show for me because that was my first ever bus show. PAX had just developed all our motor coach curriculum. I remember we drove from Kansas City, it was snowy, it was cold. I don't know if you knew this, but I forgot my coat that show. And I dated it like bad. So, like the I I still have to this day a coat. I went, I bought a coat, and it was hilarious because I got back from that show, and the first thing I did is have have it PAX branded. But that whole show, I I literally did the first half without a coat. So tell me about what was the goal on the show floor, and more importantly, I guess tell me a little bit more about women in buses.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Women in buses started in 2011, and it really started as a place, you know, for women in our industry to get together because you know, the historically speaking, there's the old boys' club. There wasn't, you know, there wasn't this space for women. So that's how it started, and it's been 15 years of women in buses, and and that's there's been so much growth and progress. Um, so what started with just a few um, you know, women bus operators is now over 500 members without travel and tourism as well as bus operators. The goal there is really to just advance women in our industry. And I think over the course of my tenure, I've seen so much change. And um the old boys' club, you know, really is going by the wayside. Now, don't get me wrong, you still walk into a room of straight straight bus operators, it is gonna be mainly men, but the interactions are just completely different now, and you are welcomed in as a woman, and that's something that's changed, and and I think part of that change comes from women in buses, comes from seeing what we've accomplished over the years and how we've been a source of education and we've networked and we've grown and we have this presence um within the industry. So I'm very proud of that. I mean, I spent six years on the leadership team, so two under membership, two as chair, and then two as past chair. One of the things that we developed um was this Women in Buses Day, which I launched in 2022 in Grapevine, Texas, when I was chair, and then part of that, we um also had a marketplace gives back for the leadership team where we started volunteering um at each venue that we went to. So that has really like shown the power of women within our industry and um that we have a place and and we belong here. So I think that has also allowed for a lot of the change that's occurred. But the more I've got involved with women in buses, the more I just wanted to continue. And then we we know what happened with COVID, and I know no one really likes to talk about that anymore, but the reality is it really, you know, rocked our worlds. So with women in buses, we sat there and said, you know, we're not gonna let fear dictate our story. Let's do something about this. And that's where really the power of collective action came into place. And we started hosting weekly uh webinars, and again, we didn't know what we were doing. We were trying to figure this out together, and we're pulling everyone in that we can that can help us figure this out. That's where we pulled you in, James, and just you know, just from tacos to webinars. Right, just with that same mentality, though, because how people were handling it is, you know, one of three ways doing nothing, pretending it didn't happen, putting their head in the sand, or trying to do ostriches.

SPEAKER_05 17:18

I remember talking about ostriches as well.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

We're trying to do something about it. So I mean, that's really where we really relied on um our fellow peers within the industry to to work together. Through that came the driving force. So the driving force started in 2021 as a way to tackle the nationwide driver shortage because after COVID, you know, we lost so many drivers in the industry. And if we were gonna rebuild, we needed staff to rebuild. Fortunately, I got to build this dream team up, and that's where you know we we pulled people in, and we, you know, you came in, James, Mike McDonnell.

SPEAKER_05 18:01

I I don't know that I you could say I came in. When you say dream team, I was like, I felt like the little kid that had just walked on to like like the the little 17-year-old that is now playing in the NHL and all of a sudden you got like Gretchke in an OE, you got like all these. Because to say that we pulled in a dream team, I mean, I I think we did the math at one point. There's like a thousand years of combined experience on that thing.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Dream team is just the right word. That that's all. I mean, we have you know, just such legends, I think, in our industry. There's uh this wealth of knowledge, and you know, Mike McDonald brings over 40 years, Pam Martin has over 40 years. So really that was the start of something that uh just really blew up in such a great way.

SPEAKER_05 18:47

Well, and I wanna I wanna rewind for a minute because I think I think what what for me was so awesome about this is women in buses and even you, right, for calling yourself an introvert, they kind of pull you in. So when I mentioned we went to Omaha and that was our first ever show, I literally remember being there and I didn't really know anybody. We just released our motor coach training, and it was Lynn from MCI, I believe, that invited me and said, Hey, we're at this taco place, and I remember meeting you, and I remember hanging out, and and you know, from there it became, hey, you know, what do you do? Getting to know each other. Women in buses, I really almost feel is there to empower like the entire industry because I can tell you, you know, just not being a women in busing, right? Not being a woman myself, I still felt welcome, I still felt like I could help, I still felt like I could support. And when COVID happened, it wasn't, hey, you know, we're done, or hey, we're gonna have like a private support group. What really impressed me during COVID about women and buses is you guys ramped up and it was, hey, we're gonna do webinars, we're gonna start doing it. And one of the things I mentioned, the ostriches, I remember you and I talking at length about ostriches because you know it can't be night forever. The sun's gonna come up. And it was one of those things where it was when the sun comes up, everybody has to be ready. We have to be able to hit the ground running. And I think it's that, and and correct me if if you're if I'm wrong or if you see it differently, I think part of what was able to berth the driving force the way it did was that mentality. Because, you know, originally it was hey, we're gonna fix the driver shortage, but I feel like, and and this is why I've always loved being on the group, I feel like it was proactive. I feel like it was long-sighted. It wasn't like, hey, we're gonna reactively do this. It was how do we get ahead of that? Let me ask you something. Do you remember where that idea came from, right? I mean, obviously, again, I I felt like the little kid getting to meet Wayne Gretzky. Like I was just this the literally the least amount of experience pulled into that group. Do you remember kind of where that came from and how that got put together?

SPEAKER_02 20:57

I think it actually stemmed from MCI, which um Mortar Coach Industries, which is Women in Buses title sponsor, but also Driving Force is now title sponsor as well. Um, but yeah, I I think it was conversations with Brent and um Liz Hall, who was chair of Women in Buses at the time, and just kind of playing around with the idea of something, not knowing the magnitude of how much it would be needed. So it was early conversations prior, you know, because we were started to be in this driver shortage prior to COVID. So then obviously when COVID happened, it it really like you know decimated the industry and it became a necessity. And how do we get that ASAP? Because so many of our companies in this industry are these small family owned operators. They don't have, you know, the resources available to, you know, hire. Certain people to, you know, hire recruiters to hire training when when everyone's in this rebuild phase. So really where we stepped in as driving force, we just started to see, hey, what can we collectively do together? What can we provide resources? How do we figure this out? And we're not just figuring this out for ourselves. We want to share this information. We want everyone to succeed. And I think that's one of the things that I love about our group is we're really not these ego-driven people whatsoever. We're just this group of people that loves our industry. We love what we do. We like each other. We want, you know, this to succeed. We want our industry to continue to grow and be better than it was before. And we all play a part of that now. So with the driving force, when we started it, we I don't know if you remember, but we created a video. And yeah, that was a big project that we had.

SPEAKER_05 23:00

How did you pick who you put on it? That's the one thing. Like, you know, I felt like I got drafted to the NHL. Like I didn't, I didn't really know how did you end up picking? Because, you know, we have become, for those, for those that don't know or haven't heard of the driving force, I feel like we're we're like a very tight-knit group. I don't think people realize, like, when we're at shows, they're usually together or we're kind of clumped together. Like, how were you able to pick and put together our group?

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Well, I think I personally I just looked at who I admired in the industry, who I've been watching and seeing, and I was able to pick a group of doers, right? There's certain people that get on things because they want you didn't want five people watching one person dig a whole.

SPEAKER_05 23:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

They want the prestige of the or you know, to say that they're on something. But you know, I was watching and and you know, I really Pam is somebody I have admired for such a long time. And she's such, you know, if you want to talk a role model or a mentor, I mean, I I think she's that to me. I mean, her, she's always so willing to share and willing to help. And then, you know, we talked about Mike and then Brent coming from the manufacturer perspective, um, yourself just and how much that you just knew people and we needed someone that understood people, and you do. So I think that's really where you know your talents lie with us, is just how that um, you know, you get how people think. And then Mike brought the safety end of things for us, and um Adam Hall, you know, and his perspective on everything too. So we have kind of unique personalities and we have strengths in other areas, um, but we all share these same goals. And one of the things that's you know very helpful is that you, Pam, Adam, and Mike are all part of BISC and on the leadership team of the bus industry safety council and bus mark. So you all have the safety culture mindset, and that really transitioned well into driving force. So that allows us to work better as a whole as well. Um, so that's really, you know, how I pick the people is just because I watch on the sidelines and see who's doing the what.

SPEAKER_05 25:26

And you're scouting. You're scouting too.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Silently scouting, yeah. Not necessarily knowing them, but I'm watching. So, and then I in, you know, we just organically started working together, and we've had other people help us along the way that have been really um wonderful assets too, but at the end of the day, it's our core group that continued on. And um, I do think that we really like each other, and that makes a huge difference for getting to work accomplished. Um, and we all work really well and work hard and we want the same things. Um, so we had this driver video, we had this why I love driving campaign. Um, we went basically on tour for a period of time.

SPEAKER_05 26:17

It was like I almost feel like we were in like a rock band. Yeah, but but one thing I want to point out because this is something that you did incredibly well, and I want to give you the compliment because you deserve it. I see a lot of groups that kind of balloon, and you end up with a lot of people on board that are not necessarily the ones that are doing the work, that are not necessarily contributing. You get a lot of people that are just kind of clinging on or that just kind of come to meetings. I think one of the things that you did that was really unique is we were able to kind of see who was actively engaged and who wasn't actively engaged. And I I won't, I I I don't know the methods, I don't know how it worked out, but you know, we kind of saw that that the people that weren't getting involved, as they stopped coming to meetings, we just and I I would I would guess you just kind of let them fall off, but you really did this incredible job of taking a larger group of people and bringing it and building it into a team. And it's funny because we'll talk a little bit later about how driving force is all about culture and team building, but whether you realize it or not, Aaron, I think what you did is you actually shaped the team and the culture. And I think that's something we talk about all the time, and I don't even know if you realize you did it, but you did. It's one of those things where that's really what's led to us being such a tight-knit group, and I think that's what makes what we do so effective. Um, can I I I guess I should just flat ask. Did you realize that's what you were doing, or is that something that you were just kind of naturally trying to progress it and and build?

SPEAKER_02 27:59

Yeah, I don't think it's mainly intentional, although there is some, you know, if I'm gonna put my name on something, then it's gotta be top-notch. And, you know, so I think that there's I put a lot of pressure on myself as well. So we set, I think we set kind of expectations, or maybe it was me that set the expectations of what we want I wanted from the group, because how do we get to the next step? And how do we get to the next step? And I think the people that stayed were willing to jump on that bandwagon and uh put the work in for us to get to the next step. Maybe it's a little bit of peer pressure. I don't know, you're tired of my emails. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 28:45

I was gonna say it's your fearless leadership.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

But I do, I mean, I appreciate that because it was very important to me that if we are working together as a team, that the team is working. And it's not, I did not want people on the team that weren't pulling their weight because that's not fair to the rest of the team. That is there's the intentionality of that is just wanting to make sure that if you are there, you're participating and you're pushing forward and pushing our goals and agenda forward as well. So didn't I still seek out to do that? I guess I wouldn't say that, but at the end of the day, yes.

SPEAKER_05 29:30

So well, I would say I have been on a lot of committees and a lot of associations, right? Even been on boards where you know stuff doesn't get done. You've got a lot of people that want to talk about it, there's no action. One of the things that we did, you know, we we said we went on that tour, right? We had presentations that we were giving, we were doing webinars, we were doing speaking events. I think one of the things that you were able to do early on is to give everyone the ability to work in their strengths. And don't get me wrong, if we were doing a session and someone wasn't there, someone else would cover. A lot of what I do and a lot of what Pam does are kind of side by side. So we tend to kind of partner up there. But you know, Mike is more operational and sometimes we partner up there. But I think one of the neat things is you were able to kind of like when we were present, we'd divide it out and we'd each kind of have our section and we'd each kind of have our groove. And I really think you were able to build what I would call a blueprint for at I I if I had to advertise as a product, I would say association committees that actually get stuff done, right? Like that, that for me, not that most don't, but on a lot of the committees I'm on, they're not as productive. And I think that to me builds up to what I kind of look at as our big first masterpiece work of art, which was the guide. And I'd love for you to be able to kind of talk about how we got to that point of the guide and what the guide is and kind of what that looks like. And then obviously we can talk about how we've evolved it a little later on, but I feel like the guide, at least for me, was a big milestone of we've got this piece that we can put out there that's really gonna be helpful for people.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

People who took ownership of what they wanted to do, right? So that's something that was important. You know, if you like what you're working on, you're gonna do a good job and you're gonna put more energy and effort into it. So that was something that, you know, I saw, and and that's how I operate here at my at my real job. Um your paid job. Right, my paid job, right, correct. Figuring out people's strengths and what you actually like. Because you don't want to be forced into doing something that you really, you know, you don't necessarily care about because that level of effort is going to be seen at the end of the day, the the end product. So, with that said, you all just really loved the areas that I think that you were working on and that really shows in the content that we produced. So early on, I don't know if you even remember this, but we had team recruit and team retention. So we broke it into two teams initially. Kind of our big initial accomplishment. Um, we produced a 75-page document for as a toolkit for recruitment and retention. And then we figured out from there, how do we want that broken out? And you know, you are always been our, you know, latest and greatest technology person.

SPEAKER_04 32:28

So we Oh, are we gonna tell the otter stories?

SPEAKER_02 32:32

So then we started to see like what was important. Culture was one of the first things that we identified as really, you know, the core of a company. It's the core of the work we do, is is it shapes it all? It's just yes. So once we identified that, and then we started to develop these roadmaps. So we had a roadmap for recruitment and a roadmap for retention, and culture weaved its way throughout every stop on the roadmap. So following that roadmap is really what you needed to do from start to finish in order to, you know, successfully hire an employee. And then how do you successfully keep that employee? Because so many times we've talked about retention starts at recruitment, but retention is so important, and people get kind of lost sometimes and just focus on the recruitment piece and neglect the staff that they already have, and that's a costly mistake. It's costly because it, you know, dollar-wise, it costs more to hire new people than to retain the staff that you already have, and it sends a message that you don't care about your employees, and that's again back to a culture thing. We worked for months on this document, and then when we hit the road for our tour, our world tour. We started presenting um, you know, the contents of this document to, you know, state associations, to the national associations, to really anyone that wanted to us there. We we did a engagement with Camp Pendleton for military recruitment. And the amount of people that were interested in this really was growing by the day. And that's why I do say it was it really became a tour for us. And we um went to the BISC meetings and presented there. There was that need for the content that we were producing, and you know, I think for me that motivated me to do more, and I think that motivated the whole team to like, we gotta continue on this, our work is not done. So that's where we really figured out what can we do next? Like, what's next? What's next? What's next? And I would say that transitions into the evolution of where the driving force is today.

SPEAKER_05 35:04

Well, and I think I think to your point, a couple things. For us, I think it was kind of like a band getting their first hit single, right? We we had put all this work in, and what made what we did unique there, and we'll pull up on the screen and we'll kind of show this, but we built a framework that anybody could follow. And the idea was, you know, you have your road, you have your different signposts, you follow your different steps, and it really was here's the different pieces you can do. And we really laid it out in a way that it made it easy to follow, it made it easy to do, and it it looked at it from a different point of view. Like, how do I go in and how do I think about things differently? How do I do things differently? And to this day, I don't know. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm I'm in training and and we've taught similar things and we've got similar structures, but in terms of something being put out there by an association that was made so available that anybody could pick up free of cost and start using, I still think it was one of the most powerful tools. And I I agree with you. I think, like I said, that that was kind of our hit single. I think there was one point we did like three webinars in a month. It it was it was a big deal and people were using it. And I think what made that unique is we had built it into a webinar you could watch. And it was almost like I I would think of it kind of like going to an event where you watch a speaker and they teach you something, and then they say, Hey, now that you know how to use that, if you want to go home and really apply it, here's the actual manual. You know, usually they want you to go buy their book at that point. The difference was we had this guide that you talked about that you could go through that webinar, you go through one of our presentations, you'd grab that guide and go apply it. And I I would say, at least in my mind, I think that's what got us the attention and the notoriety. I mean, don't get me wrong, people weren't asking me to sign their babies or anything, right? But but in terms of like being able to give back to the industry and do something as a committee, I don't know a lot of other committees that have done that. And I think what's really important that you talked about earlier is at this point, we're not even like our own group. This is, you know, you've got American Bus Association, then you've got women in buses, and we're kind of like this subgroup underneath it that has been born and kind of building out on our own. So I agree. I think for me that was huge. Um, I don't want to derail us too much, but I also think your point about culture matters a lot. And I'll be quick about the otter story. But I remember when Otter AI came out and it was like the digital note taker, and I made the mistake of having it join our meeting, right? And and we've got great culture, where the first thing was like, oh, James Brown is pet otter. Can I pet your otter? Like, does it do tricks? And it was funny because you know, obviously everybody's having fun with it, but it was like what within a month you would get on the call and everybody had their own otter. And the joke was like, we have it, we can let our pets play together. And so I think there was a lot of learning from each other, and that's something that I don't know that from the outside people have seen. I have learned more from that group of people than I I could imagine. And I find myself calling people in that group for advice all the time, and you know, we we can be at different shows and events and we're talking. So I think I think the part that people don't see is like they see the they see the product, they see the outward. I can't I don't know that I can express how much I personally also got. Like, you know, you get more back than you put in. I don't know if that's been your experience as well, but I also feel like if I go to shows and we're missing someone, I'm like, oh, like we're we're we're missing a part of the family almost.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:54

So absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

And it's like all the networking, right? And so for years, you know, people would talk about networking and but you didn't, or for me, I'm not gonna speak myself, I didn't really see the value of that until something happens, right? So then when something negative happens, then you see you you need the people, you need the community.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

Make a friend before you need one.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

Right. You need the community around you and to know who to call and bounce things off of. And that we have that. We have that group where, you know, I say we wrangle us in in the first five minutes of every meeting to um, you know, discussions. You heard the cats discuss our nonsense here, and then we wrangle it back in. But I mean, it is very important that we have that, that we have each other for that. And one of the other things I just want to mention is just how dedicated the group is. I mean, we have been meeting every other week for years.

SPEAKER_05 39:58

I mean, I think it what this we started 2020, right? This is like the sixth year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

So that's, I mean, I think that's something that stands us apart too. Uh when you say how do we get work done? Well, we don't take time apart. We are we're consistently meeting and discussing and moving forward. And that's how we're able to not go stagnant. Now, I will have to say we did have a short, brief period of time where, you know, maybe a year or so that we kind of put the brakes on driving force when you know the driving shortage was easing up a bit. And one of the things I wanted to, you know, just talk about is just this transition of where we got to be today. So today we've um changed our focus actually as of 2025.

SPEAKER_05 40:44

Well, we're a full-blown council. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

We're we're an entire council as of 2025. Fred Ferguson, the new president of American Bus Association, had come in and he started looking and saw all everything that we had done. And, you know, really called me out at the board meeting and said, Hey.

SPEAKER_05 41:06

I'm sure you loved it. Your introverted self was probably going, oh God.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

Right. So um sitting there, I think it was my first board of directors meeting, maybe my second. And just said today, like welcome to the boarding. Yeah, we'd like to um bring driving force back, but as a council, and really have it be one of the pillars of um American Bus Association. So that was huge. So I said, Well, um, I gotta call the band. I gotta see if we're all back together on this.

SPEAKER_05 41:38

Well, and you you gotta set the stage on that one too, because I think part of that is we we go on this world tour, we do all this stuff, people's numbers start coming up, and it it almost becomes that, you know. I think of Neil Armstrong, you know, they talk about how he came back from the moon and he was like, Oh, I went to the moon, what do I do now? I think we almost had kind of a period. We were still meeting, we were still talking, you know, we're still getting together, but I don't think we really knew what the next hit was or what our next big thing was.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Yeah, absolutely. So we were, yeah, we were kind of in this transition of ourselves and we were trying to figure that out. So then when Fred would like us to bring this back as a counsel, and um, okay, yeah, great. You know, I called all you guys, and immediately everyone's yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 42:26

Um, we're going back on tour. Let's get back.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

Right, right, let's get back. But this time our focus became on the entire group and motor coach industry. So no longer were our focus on just the driver shortage, we're now really looking at workforce development as a whole. And how do we strengthen our industry and have it be more successful in the future than it is today? And that's really our goal. And with that said, we uh rethought of what we're doing in recruitment and retention, obviously, still super important to us. Culture, very important to us. Yep. But when we looked at committees, we decided hey, we took on the DEI committee from American Bus Association, put it under our umbrella with culture because that goes hand in hand. And then one of the things that we were missing is um this executive management. There really isn't a place in our industry that has this, you know, these executives to meet and have these kind of ideas and you know, the C-suites of the world. Uh, so that's something that we added to our portfolio as well under Brent's leadership.

SPEAKER_05 43:46

And which the timing on that was perfect because Brent had just left MCI to go be CEO over at AHE. So that made perfect sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, and again, he's now very interested in those topics as well. Well, because that affects him. So he's working. Strengths. Right.

SPEAKER_05 44:03

Like we we've always been so great at like strengths kind of getting leveraged.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Mm-hmm. Because of that, we have this board of director presence where we've um met with the board of directors and presented to them a few different times. So now they're getting involved and want their employees to get involved in the driving force. So I think this time around, we're already so much bigger and stronger than we were before. So obviously, with that said, we needed to develop new content immediately with our shift in focus.

SPEAKER_05 44:38

We need a new hit single.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

Yes. So we did. We got to work. So this was last summer when we really kind of took this on again, and we got to work and we created this guide to workforce development. And honestly, I've read that a few times recently, and I am really proud of that work. I I think it's I think it's really good. So for those of you who haven't read it, I mean, it it's really great. Like it's an expansion of the toolkit.

SPEAKER_05 45:06

And we'll drop a link below so that they can go see it.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Yeah, it's an expansion of the toolkit, and it really focuses on, you know, careers, career paths, and then there are these like roadmaps, if you will, that you've put together, you know, for recruitment from perspective to new hire, and then onboarding and retention from first day to every day. So it's looking at, you know, the company and your employees and how are you handling them? There's this culture section and there's communication, and how are you communicating with your employees? We've done surveys um through ABA members, and the number one thing that came back that people want improved at their company is communication and feedback.

SPEAKER_05 45:55

Always.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

And we've addressed that in this guide, but we're gonna continue to address that. That's that is on our radar, and that is um, you know, something that we take very seriously. Like when we do these surveys and we're really sitting down as a group and discussing the results and figuring out what what that equals for our next steps. Um, one of the things that we took over as part of being a council now is education at ABA.

SPEAKER_05 46:25

So that's been a huge And that was totally new for us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

And you know, we jumped right into that. And I think we we already had a successful launch at Marketplace this past year, but we're continuing to go full steam ahead. We have more information. We're we're talking to more people, we're engaging industry professionals. So we we want to make sure that we are the resource that you need. We, you know, you personally need your employees need your company needs to get to the next level. Future leadership is a concern of ours and not a concern in a bad way, but it's very important. And how do we create these future leaders so that we're providing education, you know, from if you're entry level, if you're mid-level, if you're an executive, we have something for each step along the way.

SPEAKER_05 47:23

I I agree entirely, and I think one of the big things is, you know, one and and we would joke about it before, you know, when we were under women in buses, it was always, what's the budget on this? Right. And and I think one of the things that I will say is, you know, you've put some of your personal funds into this, you've put personal money behind it, you know, and you've gone out of your way and you've made printer versions the guide, or you've you've kind of taken some initiative. And I think at a certain point, you know, we've all kind of pitched in. I remember at one point, you know, I co-opted our graphic designer and I was like, hey, we need a branding guy for driving force, you're gonna do this, you know, and so I think we've one of the things that we've been able to do is we've almost kind of MacGyvered resources when we've needed them. And I think now that we've emerged as our own council, we're seeing that, you know, one, it means a lot, at least to me, I'm sure it does to you, to get that kind of recognition to say, hey, you guys should be your own council. But I think we're seeing a lot more support, we're seeing a lot more responsibility as a result of that. But I think the end result is that we're able to be more impactful. You know, we've got the meeting coming up that we've been involved in with BISC, the summer meeting. I think a lot of that for me is it's almost like I I think back to what you were talking about a little ago, oh, when you were talking about when you guys took over the charter and you just kind of had to figure it out, and then you brought someone in, and I almost feel like I'm watching a similar arc happen with us in driving force. We've got this core team, we were able to build something that worked, you know, then we really weren't sure what came next, and now it's kind of that growth period for us, and I think we're kind of figuring out where all that sits. So I I think for me in terms of journey, that's where I see us. Let me ask you, you know, obviously we we just did a survey, we have a good idea where we're going. What do you think the next 12 months look like for us? Where do you see us going? What do you see as our next big milestones? And more important for listeners that are just now finding out about driving force, how do they make sure that they get to intercept that and get those resources and start using it?

SPEAKER_02 49:39

Driving Force is a council within American Bus Association, so you do need to become a member of American Bus Association to obtain all of our information. But going forward, you know, we are dedicated to releasing, you know, new content for everyone every single month. So we've already mapped out the rest of the year and what that looks like for content-wise. And it is really based on the survey results and what you know you've told us that you need. We are working, as James mentioned, for the BISC summer meeting, which is August 10th through the 12th. We are providing some content for that meeting and we are engaging industry professionals. We are already looking ahead at um marketplace for 2027 and developing going to Canada. Yeah, and developing education content for that as well. I think, you know, the biggest thing for us is just this continuous learning. That's gonna be, you know, our focus. And what that looks like, it's gonna look in the form of webinars, it's gonna look in the form of round tables. Um, we have so much success when people talk to one another and learn from one another. And that's one of our favorite things to do is guide these roundtable discussions. I personally get a lot out of them, but I know everyone else does as well because you have the opportunity to share maybe something that's working for you or not working for you. Ask for advice with your peers. So that that's really beneficial. And we are going to continue to present as well and work on, you know, things that matter to the industry. You know, Brent's been hard at work working on um, you know, the insurance crisis because we don't want to see businesses go under and due to those escalating costs and future leadership development is on our radar, and that's what our fo we're focusing on as well. And just a lot of people are saying that there's employee burnout issues, and that's something we're looking at and seeing like how do we prevent burnout for employees? And just a qualified candidate pool is an issue that we've been told is a hiring issue. So, what new opportunities are there to find people? And you know, how can you look at things a different way? And that's something that we always have excelled at is giving a different perspective. You know, one of the things in our original toolkit, we um provided sample job descriptions. So, how do you tweak your job description to reach more people? So we're gonna continue to do um those type of things and we welcome feedback. We want to hear what you know you need. And if there's a specialty area that you bring to the table and that's something that you want to share with others, you know, we'd love to involve you as well.

SPEAKER_05 52:55

So let me ask you then two things as we kind of close it out. One, if they're looking for resources, they want to get their resources. Obviously, you have to be an American Bus Association member, but where do they go for that? And then the second one is if they want to give us feedback, if they want to get involved, what is the best way to get in touch?

SPEAKER_02 53:15

All of our resources are um, you know, a part of American Bus Association, and uh our council actually has a page within American Bus Association where our resources are found there. If you become a member, you can get on our email list as well. And the enrollment form is on um American Bus Association's page. If you want to learn more, um, you can certainly send us an email, James myself. We did have an email address, drivingforce at buses.org, and that will get to us as well.

SPEAKER_05 53:51

I think it's important that we put out there as well that it doesn't really matter what you need help with or what your issue is. I think for us it's getting the feedback. So I would say anybody that wants to get in touch, even if it's, you know, hey, well, I'm worried it's just a me issue, or I worry it's just something that no one else is dealing with. I think the more you can give us in terms of information, the better equipped we are. So I would encourage everybody reach out. Um, we'll also make sure all of the links are gonna be below in the description. So you guys can just go into the description of this, click it, and go straight there. Now let me ask Aaron, as we close it out, what I I think you know, usually I ask what you'd like to share with members. I I I think what I'd want to ask you is if someone hasn't seen these resources, if they don't know about these resources, or if they're just finding out about these resources, we've talked about lots of stuff. We've talked about webinars, we talked about the guide, we've talked about what should they do next? Like as soon as we sign off, if you are just now finding out about driving force, what would you tell them to do next as soon as this podcast ends?

SPEAKER_02 55:03

I mean, I would say just read our read the toolkit, read the guide, start engaging yourself that way. Um, and then make sure that you become a member so that you can continue to get the content that becomes available. We what I'd like everyone to know is that we are looking at, you know, small companies, mid-sized companies, large companies. We are understanding that, you know, different sizes, um, different business types, you all have different needs. And we know that and we're addressing those things. But with that said, there's so many common threads that we've thrown out. And I think our resources really have that common thread that can be applicable um to you know pretty much anyone. So we we know that not everyone has a recruiter on staff, not everyone has, you know, a safety director that might be also your dispatcher, and you may wear multiple hats, and those are the people that actually really need our content the most because that's how I use it. Because, you know, I wear a lot of hats at my company, and if I can pull something from here and I can pull something from here, and now you know I'm more efficient at my job and I'm you know getting ahead of things that I wouldn't even have time to look at.

SPEAKER_05 56:29

When we built these tools, they they weren't built to be like one big thing where you have to read the whole guide. I think one of the neat things that we really went out of our way to do is we built it in such a way that if you're struggling with recruitment, you could jump straight to recruitment, you can jump right in a recruitment, you can use just that piece. If you're struggling with finding candidates, you can jump in there. If you're struggling with, you know, the hiring process, you can it's really kind of built to where you can use all of it or you can go to the part you're at. And I think that I I would say in my mind, and hopefully you agree, Aaron, I think this is something that anybody that kind of looks at that part of the business should have on their desk. And you can use it as a reference guide, and it's something that you have there, you have available that you can go to. Um, I I gotta tell you, for me, I think driving force has been, at least personally and kind of what we've done, probably one of the most influential committees and now councils that I've been involved in. And so I can't thank you enough for everything you've done putting it together. And I I gotta tell you, it's been a long time coming. I'm super excited that you're able to come on the podcast. Um, is there anything at all you want to leave with before we close out? Any last words, any last thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 57:44

We are a passionate group and our industry really cares, and we are overall a safe mode of transportation. And I think all the work that we are doing is just to ensure this future. It's to ensure that we have a place here and we are bigger, better, and stronger. And, you know, that to me is what my takeaway of being in the driving force is that I really enjoy helping others, but as much as I'm helping others, I'm helping myself. I'm learning every single day, and it's really allowing me to be much better at my job and in turn have our company better. So my encouragement would be to get yourself involved. And that may look different for each and every person, but if you're not involved in an association or a council or you know, some sort of a committee, then my recommendation would be to do that because that's really the beginning steps to take yourself to the next level.

SPEAKER_05 58:55

Aaron, I I can't think of a better place to leave it. Thank you so much for coming on. As always, thank you everybody for listening. If you haven't already, please like and subscribe. All of the information for the driving force we're gonna have in the description below. So links to the driving force um page on American Bus Associationsbuses.org. We'll have that email. And as always, we look forward to hearing you, seeing you on the next episode of the Ground Transportation Podcast. Thanks for listening. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_03 59:21

Thank you for listening to the Ground Transportation Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe to the show on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information about PAX training and to contact James, go to packstraining.com. And for more information about driving transactions and to contact Ken, go to driving transsactions.com. We'll see you next time on the Ground Transportation Podcast.