SPEAKER_03 0:00

The town car was going to be dead in 2007. So they had this meeting. They're in Vegas, and the story goes president of Lincoln walks out of the hotel and sees all these town cars, sees stretches, and basically has an epiphany and says, We can't get rid of this car. Too many people rely on it. Look at this industry that we've created. They basically moved the production up to Canada and they started producing car for four years up in Canada. That's what also spawned the L series. We got the L series produce up there. So it was a it was a whole big wake-up call for Ford.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

You're listening to the Ground Transportation Podcast with Ken Lucci of Driving Transactions and James Blaine of PAX Training. Learn how you can build a thriving transportation business with real profits, repeat clients, and enterprise value. And now for your hosts, Kennan James.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Good afternoon, Ground Transportation Podcast audience. This is another exciting Friday. I am joined by my lovely and talented co-host, but he's not the star of the show today, neither am I. We are blessed to have a legend, legend in the business. Also from New Jersey. He's a nice guy. Until he doesn't, you know, he he might not have he might not be if he doesn't have to be. He's a nice guy. He's a great New Jersey guy. So jealous of that head of hair. Forget about it. Here you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

There it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Barry Trav from Complete Fleet. He's been serving the livery industry for a long time. Welcome, Barry. We're so happy to have you.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Thank you, James. Thank you, Ken. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm uh I was waiting for the invite, and I'm so happy that I'm finally on your your uh your podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

So it's a distinguished list of guests we have.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Yeah, honored to be here. So I'm excited to have you on. You do a lot for the industry. I'm lucky enough to get to serve on the board in Jersey with you. So I I love working with you, man. I'm excited to have you on here. You do a great job as well, James.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

So, you know, you're a specialty car dealership serving the livery space. You know, we've met, I probably met you six years ago, and I I certainly I think it was at a at a New Jersey event. You're also friends with some of my favorite people in the entire world, the entire, you know, Galino family from Gem. I met I met them after I sold them Concord Worldwide, Bobby Bellagamba, another great friend of yours from New Jersey. And so, but but I have to say, I do I heard about Complete Fleet long before that because some of my clients in my early days used you to buy cars, and we we always saw saw your sales orders when we were doing valuations. But I'm talking about some people that are in California. So I want you to tell us about Complete Fleet. How did you get into the into the space and how did you choose delivery as a niche?

SPEAKER_03 3:02

It's an interesting story, Ken. I actually got in as a chauffeur in high school. I started working for a family friend. I was a junior in high school. I was doing funerals and proms. And uh I look like uh like a 12-year-old boy, you know, baby face and with great hair.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

With great hair, though.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

And and you're you're and you're on an insurance plan. So like this this could never fly today, junior high school.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

No, it was incredible that that allowed me to do it. You know, no map, no uh GPS, going out to JFK, picking people up, you know, having to use payphones and beepers and all that stuff to to figure out how to get to JFK Airport. Uh never been there before, kind of like worried, am I gonna get lost and I'm in the Bronx? What am I gonna do? Then uh ultimately I switched to a company that did like a lot of exotic cars. You know, this is late 80s, so they had super stretches, tandem axle stretches, and I really grew fond of the industry, the people I was driving. And then um I decided to do it. I decided to buy my own car. I was 20 years old and I started my little venture. Exquisite limousine was born, uh, June of 1989. Uh, I operated it and owned that company uh for 15 years. Uh and when you know Complete Fleet was you know on on the run, I said, I I really this is this is a conflict of interest. I wasn't really growing the company.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

And so how does that how does that happen though, Barry? Because like I'll I'll be I'll be frank, like we've known each other for a long time. I didn't know you were an operator. I think that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

And it's 30 years old, you couldn't do that.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean that's uh that's awesome. How does that where does complete fleet like you know, you start your company, you start building it out. Where does complete fleet kind of where does that come into? Are you just buying so many cars you had to make your own dealership?

SPEAKER_03 4:45

Uh no, I wish that was the case. What I what I did find in my 20s is when I was going to buy cars, uh, I was going to these major, you know, fleet dealers. I wasn't getting treated well. I was just a number. They didn't really respect me. I was a kid.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

And well, you're a 20-year-old running a company, I mean, especially in that business.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

Right. But you know, when you're 20 and you start, you're thinking, you know, you know everything. I think forget this guy, I'll do it myself. You're 25, then you're thinking the same thing. Like, you know, and then you're not getting treated the right way. And one thing I found as an operator, I really enjoyed selling. I really enjoyed knocking on doors, talking to people, not you know, always not getting a sale. You know, that was just something that was in me. And I felt, you know, when I was 30, I felt the need, hey, this is something that I could partner with another store. I put a business plan together. And at that point, uh, my first company was born. Uh, complete fleet started probably about 10 years after that. We were basically off to the off to the races, you know, and it was all basically about delivering customer service, giving people back what I wasn't getting as an operator, right? Knowing the small operator, you know, trying to get the big operators and just knowing that you're present, right? You're there for them. Uh, so that that was really my my sales pitch.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

So well, think about it. They do a typical dealer doesn't really care if this vehicle is off the road for an extended period of time. But it it kills us if we have a vehicle down every single day, we're losing revenue. And you know, that's I follow you on Facebook, I see how you deliver vehicles. Um, you know, personally, even now you're delivering them personally. So tell us a little bit about Complete Fleet today. What are you handling?

SPEAKER_03 6:31

So we basically and and COVID really sparked this for us. We were solely doing Ford and Lincoln. Uh, we dabbled prior in years, you know, not having setups in our in our partnership stores. It was kind of a little bit of a struggle. And right before COVID happened, we were ready to partner with Volvo. You know, the S90 was about to come out, and we were we were ready to go off to the races with that car. Obviously, you know that the sedan went away, right? So it's like that was the last sedan standing, and they were certainly energized enough to be in the business and wanted, you know, wanted it. So COVID happened, everything got shut down. And once we started pulling out of it, I actually reached out to Volvo and said, hey, listen, we what we got to put this program back on the map again. I actually got them to, you know, they weren't gonna order any cars, they were just saying, you know, let them let the customers come to us and we'll order the car. And I said, That's not gonna work. It takes six months to get the car. We have to be proactive. Yeah, have cars. That's not how that works.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

So uh these guys don't plan ahead that much.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

No, no, no, no. Can you have a car here in 10 minutes? I want to buy one.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Yeah, it's it's exactly I have the money now before I spend it elsewhere.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

James, I'm getting a text for that. Take this paper bag full of money, please. Yeah, and that's exactly what it was like with COVID. You just couldn't have enough cars. So with that happening and COVID, we realized hey, um, we got something here. This is just not for Ford and Lincoln. We bring a lot of knowledge and great relationships that we have with clients and people they want to deal with you, they want to buy from me, right? They want to buy from my team. We care about them. So that basically got us involved with uh a Chevy store. And you know, we partnered with a Chevy store and we're partners with now a uh a Cadillac dealership as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

So, Barry, you are a multi-vehicle sales provider. Without getting into your secret sauce, I don't want you to do that. How does that work? How do you get those manufacturers to take you seriously?

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Well, again, I'm uh almost 40 years in the business, right? So I have the knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Look like you're 25.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

Uh, thank you. So 40 years in the business, right? I mean, you have your knowledge, you have your customers, you know, you have years of selling cars, being heavily involved with the associations, and just my reputation, you know, our reputation as a company, it just precedes itself. People just want to do business with us.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

So there's this there's no question about that. I mean, it shocked me, Jennifer Buffo from Pure Luxury, yeah, in Napa Valley, California, when we sold her company, all of her sales orders came from you. And I said, Jennifer, Barry's in New Jersey. I wouldn't have it any other way. And this is what people don't understand. You go to your local car dealer and you you buy something off the lot, even if it is livery, okay, you can't, you don't have your advocate. Barry's the advocate.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

And he also knows everything going on with the manufacturer. So can we step back and talk about how did you get Volvo after the pandemic to really take you seriously? Did you give him any projections, or you just said, trust me on this? And this is Volvo America is in New Jersey, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:48

So I was dealing with the fleet rep and we had started the relationship again prior to. And I again, they were not gonna order any cars. And I said, that's fine, but we want to order cars. We want to order 50 cars. Give us give give us 50, right? And next thing you know, they order 50, but then the the fleet manager came back to me and said, Yeah, we're gonna order 50 as well. So I motivated them to get back in the game and realize, hey, if he's gonna do it, he must know something that we don't know. And I got them back in. And then in addition to that, you know, with Ford, uh, we were very lucky. We've got very good contacts uh with the manufacturers. And I got Ford to basically not necessarily me, but they realized that you know there was still a need to build cars. You know, we had the chip shortage, it was like a god, that was terrible. Perfect storm, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Oh, geez, that was a hot mess, man.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

It was it really was. So they kind of prioritized our fleet vehicles. So my retail department was really upset in multiple stores, like, we're not getting cars. How are you getting cars, Barry? And it was just like we were getting priority, they were building our fleet cars, and that's which is not typical. You wouldn't think our industry would get priority.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

I mean, you you did some real magic there, Barry.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Well, listen, it's it's not me. You know, I put I pushed the buttons and and it worked, right? So, uh, and they prioritized our cars, which is fantastic. And that's part of the reason why we also expanded because like Jennifer Buffo, like Robert Alexander, we had cars and they needed cars. And you know, when you give the customer service and then you also have the product to deliver, right? Uh, where nobody else did. So we we had the cars, we were able to deliver them flawless. And the biggest part of this whole process is really paperwork, right? It's and and the east of the transaction. So anybody could really sell a car. Are they gonna stand behind the product? Are they gonna stand behind the paperwork if something happens to it? Are they gonna expedite the paperwork, which you know is is crucial.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

You know how many nightmares the DMV I have heard operators go off about? I mean, just yeah, it's a mess.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

It's certainly a mess. And regarding DMV, everything changes like day to day. You know, what what's good yesterday in this form? No, now we need something else. And then they come back and they say, Well, no, you need this tax form. Oh, guys, you're in New Jersey, you're tax exempt. You don't need this tax form, you know, like right. So that you have to explain it to the the DMV and the and the customer.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

It really is all about the relationships because when it's one thing when things are going well, but when the the shit hits the fan and you need the attention of the dealer, you're gonna get it. So talk to us about specifics about you know, the Volvo is not they're not building it anymore.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

No, they are building it, they're not importing it.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

They're not importing it.

SPEAKER_03 12:40

Oh, that's just not in the U.S. market, yeah, because of tariffs and and that's subject to change.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Uh that is subject to change. Do you think if the tariffs drop, it'll come back into the industry?

SPEAKER_03 12:49

I'm not sure if that particular S90 will, but I know there's talk of an all-electric uh X S90 coming into the marketplace.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

And electric we're gonna get into, but you know, one of the things that you hit it out of the park with is both the aviator and the Nautilus. And, you know, you mentioned Robert Alexander, who, by the way, religiously listens to this podcast because he gives me shit about it all the time. Um, we have to have him on, by the way, because he's looking he's gonna get an incredible story that he needs to tell.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Anyway, without a doubt.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Robert, you know, he's kind of agnostic on vehicles, but he raves about the Nautilus. His customers love them. So tell us tell us about the difference between the aviator and the Nautilus and what your thoughts are on it.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

That's great, Ken. And I really appreciate you we touching on the Nautilus. Uh to roll it back a little bit. You know, we had the uh the MKT, right? And the MKT was a course, nobody liked it.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Oh, we're not gonna go all the way back to the continental, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:50

Town car, town car.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Oh, no, no, I was going all the way back to the 60s.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Like, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

The town car was the workhorse, man. The town car, when I got into the industry 10 years ago, the town car was on its way out, and my favorite story is in the back of a long door Lincoln town car.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Yeah, and I gotta I gotta tell you No sex stories, James, James, no sex stories. Ken, like in the back seat of the Lincoln, stop it, stop it.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Okay, well, I don't I don't know where you did it, but anyway. I was I was in style. Um, but I guess if you go back that far, like you went to the MKT, I would say start us at kind of the Lincoln, right? Start us at the town car, if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

Yeah, so uh again, that was the only car, right? So my competition, there was no separation, right? You're buying one car, so it doesn't really matter. Uh so it was all about relationships because hey, I could go this direction, I could go that direction, that dealer, everybody had the town car. Not everybody knew how to sell it, but everybody, you know, so I guess the town car was ending in 2011. It was our final order uh that we could place. And they weren't gonna come out with the MKT until 2000, it was gonna be a 2013. And that's why I wanted to add bring it up was that gap.

SPEAKER_04 15:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

So you had to have enough inventory to hold you until this car, because you know, you need inventory to live, right? To sell cars, and and you have to make sure you have stock for your customers. If they need something, you got to be there for them, right? You gotta have stock on the shelf. So uh when the final orders came in, we ordered, you know, a fair amount, 200, uh, just to you know keep us going. And then I had a good friend that said, Hey, I need 50. Uh, but wow out of out of those 200, and the order bank was already closed. So I'm like so you couldn't replace them. I was like, look it, you know, and I I really wanted to get that order before I placed the 200 to have some extra cars, but I was able to call the manufacturer and I was able to get them to modify my orders to silver, right? So I'm I'm left for 150 and I have the 50 silver cars. And you know, this gentleman, uh Tim Rose and Mike Rose gave me that order.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Uh oh, you kidding? Sure.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

So, you know, uh beautiful pictures that we've made with the the parking lot filled with 50 silver town cars when they all came in. Um and then I recall, okay, so now town car were transitioning, had a town car, now it's MKT. There have Ford had a meeting at one of these hotels where all the large operators showing the MKT, it was just not well received. We want the town car, we want the town car. It was a disappointment.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Look, but having driven one, I was in love with the Ford Flex. So was Bobby Bellagamba. I had Ford Flexes in my fleet in Florida, but to give it its due, the MKT was a warhorse. It just was the look, right? People didn't like it.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

If you look at a town car to an MKT, yeah, I mean, you're basically going, you're not going to an SUV, you're almost in a crossover space. So I've driven flexes. Flexes are ugly as hell. Like I apologize to anybody that likes a flex, but that's a face only a mother could love. That's like an Edsel looking face, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

So take us through the reveal, Barry. What was that like?

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Oh, it was just like uh, you know, if they could boo it, they they were booing. They were just like not happy.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Muscle back, kind of wacky back.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

Did they put the sheep? Did they put the sheep back on the car? Yeah, there was just like everybody was MF in the car, right? What did what did they do here? Like, what do you what is this, you know? And then what have you done?

SPEAKER_01 17:26

We are in New York and New Jersey here, so I can imagine.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Yeah, but if they would have liked it, it would have been fine. Just you you brought out something they're not gonna like.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

But fast forward when they stopped producing it in 2019, people were like, I really love that car. I really, there was so much room in it.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

You know, yeah. They learned to love it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

And uh it was a workhorse, and we could she was an acquired taste, yeah. All wheel drive. You know, the town car did not have all-wheel drive, it was it was horrible in snow, and this was great in gas and had technology and had cameras, you know, so all that stuff was really it rounded out the car to be really uh a great workhorse and it gorgeous interior, great stretch, too, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:08

So great stretch, yes, yeah. Great stretch.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

The the big thing that I I and this was I got into the industry right about the time this is happening, and I think one of the things that's really big there is change, right? Yeah, people hate change, and that was a radical change, and it took time to grow on them. I think the other thing that, and and Barry, you you're gonna be able to speak this a lot better than I can. I think they felt like they were forced. They felt like, you know, hey, we've picked what we're gonna replace it with, and we've picked it based on what we want, not what you want, not what you are giving us on feedback on.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

I remember the president of Lincoln at one point saying, you know, I don't want my luxury car, meaning the L Town car. Yeah, I don't want it being positioned as a black taxi. He made a comment about it in the last year, but but the you know what they failed to understand was the damn reliability of that L car. You know, you couldn't kill it.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

To back it up a little bit, Ken. It was really uh 2007, all right. There was a meeting. They were they were gonna close, I think, I believe they were producing the town car in Dearborn, right? And they were closing that production plant. And they had a meeting with all the dealers, all the coach builders out in Vegas, right? And the town car was gonna be dead in 2007. So they had this meeting, they're in Vegas, and the story goes: the president of Lincoln walks out the hotel and sees all these town cars, sees stretches, sees like, and basically has an epiphany and says, We can't get rid of this car. Too many people rely on it. Look at this industry that we've created, and they they basically moved the production up to Canada, and they started producing the car for four years up in Canada. That's what also spawned the L series. We got the L series produced up there, so it was a it was a whole big wake-up call for Ford. Again, they were gonna, they were they were not gonna build again. They were the town car was done in 2007. And thankfully that that's how we got to 11, right? That's how we got to 11, right? Yeah, and it's the same thing. You had to order cars until the plant reopened, and you know, so again, we had a stockpile a year's worth of cars in 2007 before we could get to 2008. So it was it was a little bit of a cluster.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Uh but that was the heyday of the industry back then. I mean, before the financial crisis, right, there was just massive amounts of of town cars all over tri-state market. So fast forward us to you, you know, the the MKT, it became an acquired taste. And now that's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

It's it's an interesting to me how the crossovers kind of take in the place of the sedans. But but talk about that a little bit. I mean, I still have network clients that 70% of their business is one well, not 70, like 62% of their business is one passenger, and and they're technically selling them a sedan. They may have they may have to get an SUV, but talk about the crossovers.

SPEAKER_03 21:17

So uh again, um what people don't really understand is their like Ford's commitment, as well as GM, right? But Ford specifically at this point, they were building cars for our industry, they were making vehicles that we can somehow use, right? And right the aviator was the the the next transition for us. Nobody thought, especially my contacts at Ford, thought that they were actually going to make that a livery vehicle. And what that does by making a delivery vehicle, you're reducing the cost for you know, you're taking some of the content out so the vehicle is more affordable. And in addition to that, they're slapping on a four year, 150,000 mile premium care warranty. So but that's the big deal, isn't it? That is the big deal.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

That's that's more. On their end, that's the bigger risk than stripping the vehicle down, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:03

So I bet you a lot of new operators don't know, realize that the livery vehicle is different than the consumer vehicle. It's got heavy-duty brakes, it's got a bunch of different things to it.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

Can it did? Not so many. It did.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

But now it's get still got the 150 bumper to bumper.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

150 premium care covers uh 1,000 components and 150,000 miles. It's it's one of the best warranties out there.

SPEAKER_02 22:29

But back in the day, a lot of the, I mean, to a certain extent, they're still making police interceptor packages, but for for forever now, there's always been kind of those areas where, you know, hey, this industry has their version, this industry has their version. There might be some overlap between. That's starting to go away, right? It is.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

So, like, let's just talk about the aviator space, right? Aviator had a Cadillac that was competing against it, I believe the CT6. And then also now the Volvo. Volvo wanted to get into the you know the XC90 similar space. So yeah, those three horses running in the same race. And quite honestly, Aviator already had a head start. People were gravitating towards towards that vehicle, and then the Nordless they decided to move that production over to China. And wow, what a car! Right. When I first came in, it was like this is like a baby navigator, you know. And the big thing beautiful, yeah, the big thing for me is obviously uh the hybrid. Hybrid changes everything, and I take my customers' feedback, right? And you know, Mike Rose, of course, and Mike Rose was like, I'm gonna love Mike Rose. Yeah, we we talk a couple times a week, uh, so it's it's all good. But he was telling me, hey, this is this is a car that I think I want to try. And um, and being in that backseat prior to Mike placing the order for a bunch of them, before I was sitting in the backseat, I'm like, this is this actually has more room than the aviator. Uh really. Yeah, the second row in the Nautilus is pushed back a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

They're spacious, they're deceivingly spacious.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Yeah, and the door opens up more, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 24:10

The door is a little wider, wider of an opening, and it's also taller. So and and not as high as the aviator. Now there are there are aviator fans that they they they don't want to buy a Chinese car, even though it's owned by Lincoln. Sure, sure. You know, Volvo, it is what it is, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:29

So but it really came on fast, the Nautilus. And it, I mean, when you're talking about RMA, is one of the largest networks in the country buying them. And I know the couple of the other networks have bought bought them.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

And and they rave about them. Talk about the mileage on the hybrid.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

So the mileage is uh anywhere between 30 to 35 miles to the gallon on on a hybrid version. We've compared the gas engine versus the hybrid engine, and because it's about three thousand dollars more, and you make that back, you make that back in like six months.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Oh, if you need the calculation on paper, let me know. What about the maintenance schedule? No question about it. Yeah, let's talk about the maintenance schedule.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

The maintenance schedule, the serviceability. I mean, obviously, if you have a hybrid drivetrain, now you've got a more complex drivetrain.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

So um, interestingly enough, I don't see many of them in my service department. And and I'm not getting calls. So that's you talked about, you know, being involved and and speaking with your customers and getting feedback. Well, I'm putting out fires every day. There's always something wrong to piece of machinery, right? So things happen from tires to lug nuts. I've seen it all.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

I've seen it especially the way we abuse vehicles in this industry.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

Yeah, it it's it's been a great journey. I love what I do, I love my customers, you know, and I and there's there's always a challenge, right? There's always somebody that that's cheaper, you know, they're easier, they're local. And it's like, well, I I understand if it's all about price, then you need to go to your local store and and go that direction. We kind of work on it a different way. We want to service our customers. We're we're all in the same ballpark, but it's all about service, it's all about taking care of you. And then when you do have an issue, I'm gonna stand up for you, I'm gonna make the waves, I'm gonna call the manufacturer, I need help here. And believe me, I'm the squeaky wheel.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

I mean, I don't stop until well, you represent a few thousand units to them, whereas maybe the guy that buys it from his local dealer because he knows a salesperson, that vehicle is sitting in queue, just like just like everybody else's vehicle. So talk to us. I love the fact that I love the fact that Lincoln came up came out with a hybrid for the space. It still has the same livery warranty, correct?

SPEAKER_03 27:57

Yeah, interesting. And thank you for for bringing that up. Yeah, four-year, 150,000 mile warranty. And then they just offered this product that actually we just became familiar with it, but it's been out on the books for a couple years. There's now a warranty that Ford Lincoln offers it. It's called a wrap. You could take your vehicle that has 150,000 miles on it and extend it to 200,000 miles, and you have an option to do it for four or five years, and it's and it's a very competitive price uh to do that. So to have a factory warranty to go all the way up to 200,000 miles and hurt.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

You can't beat it. Let's back up. What do you think the average New York and New Jersey operator turns their sedans and SUVs? Give me a mileage or a year? Is it three years on the dot? Is it a certain amount of mileage?

SPEAKER_03 28:46

So the typical turnaround, you know, this is a good subject to talk about because you got guys that uh are running their cars for 30 months, some are operating for 24 months, and then I've got a lot of these other owner operators that want to finance their cars for 72 months. Wow. It's a tough one. It really pains me when people come in and they want to upgrade their vehicle and they still have three years left of uh you got a six-year loan. Yeah, and you know, your car's got 150,000 miles on it and it's not worth much, you know. Right. Cadillac escalates, you know, and and it this is where I try to educate the buyer and say, you really don't want to do this, even if you don't buy it from me. Don't go with a 72-month finance, don't even go with a 60-month finance. Uh, and and one of the things I always joke about and touch, I say, listen, you always gotta have an exit strategy. Whenever you buy that car, you got to think about how you're gonna get out of it. Like what right when you buy it, you know, so you gotta throw extra money at it. Whatever you got to do to make sure that in 36 months, God from the world turns upside down, you could get out of your car, you know. So agreed.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Agreed. Look, you could the mathematics on the SUV is if you're not doing $180,000 to $200,000 a year out of those units, you have too many of them. If you're an IO, you should be doing $180,000 to $200,000 all year long, all day long, because you have multiple people giving you work. So to finance that out 72 months, it's a suicide. Barry, you're probably one of the only guys to give them that advice. The rest of them would be like, sign here.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Well, they just want to move units.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

I don't know that my competitors go that same route, but you know, as far as the fleet dealers, I think we're all in the same same school. Uh you but if you go to the one-off a retail store, they don't care about you.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

They're gonna Well, they probably don't get it either, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:40

And they're they're even submitting you as like a as a retail.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Tell us the difference. That's critically important.

SPEAKER_03 30:46

When you go retail, what tends to happen, what I find is I get a lot of guys that call up that want to buy a car and they're going through all the steps. I got to trade, I do this, I do that. And the final question is hey, do you offer zero percent? And no, we don't offer zero percent. It's a commercial loan, it's a commercial vehicle, and other dealers will do this just to sell the car. You know, price may be a little bit higher. And this happens a lot in my general area. A lot of the guys go into the store. I tell them, guys, if you're gonna do this, here's the mix on it. You got to basically take this car and register it. The dealer's gonna register because they want to make sure it's it's a retail car. Then you're gonna get your title back anywhere from six to eight weeks. Six to eight weeks, you get your title back. Then you can get your TLC plates or your livery plates, whatever you're doing, because you already satisfied the bank has a retail car. Now you're gonna make a delivery car. You're not working for six to eight weeks. So the money that you're saving, you know, for version.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

You just lost a month and a half, and you're paying insurance, right?

SPEAKER_03 31:46

And you're what are you doing at home? You know, so it's not worth it, you know. And I try to I try to educate some of these guys, and some of them get it, some of them don't. They just they're so focused on zero percent.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

So they're also focused. Listen, it's a workhorse. You have to take care of it, but you it has to make financial sense. The the escalades should get you a higher level clientele and demand a higher price. If you're out there marketing low price, you can't do it in a brand new escalade. It's just the numbers don't work. So you talk about a hybrid. Give us your thoughts on EV in delivery space. You know, there was based upon perhaps all of the things going on with the federal government pushing EVs and the tax credits, et cetera, those have all subsided. But what what do you see for the future of EVs in our space?

SPEAKER_03 32:44

I really feel that the hybrid's the better option because you know, the heat the comfort. Chauffeurs don't want to go to a charging station, right? They're not educated on this. It takes longer, you got to find it. They get, you know, range anxiety, then they don't know when the car is gonna run out of no question. They got to make a whole nother itinerary, right? To be able to know where they're gonna recharge it, and then pray to God you're gonna get back from a long run. We tried this route. Uh, we had the Mach E. They were they were throwing at right after COVID.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Mustang Mach E from Ford, correct. They put that which that put that, did they put that in the little in the livery fleet?

SPEAKER_03 33:24

They didn't they tried. Yeah, they tried. They didn't give us an extended warranty on it, right? But they did give us uh inventory, they did give us even allocation that we could order it, and you know, we ordered a bunch of them, and I really loved the car. I gotta be honest with you, I drove it for a couple weeks. I loved it. And when I tell you that it had a great backseat and it had the roof, it was really a nice passenger vehicle. I've got a couple people that still have them, but it's just not there. You know, you just don't have the infrastructure, and and along with the drivers being comfortable to charge.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Well, you you said a mouthful there because our industry, nothing goes as planned. So if you're in an EV and you've got a last-minute pickup, or you've got an extended pickup, and as a driver or chauffeur, you're sitting down looking at that range and saying, holy shit, right? I'm gonna I'm not gonna be able to do this. I've always wondered that because to me, the hybrid is the solution because it gets you over the 30 mile an hour, excuse me, 30 miles per gallon. Maybe in the city, what do you think they get?

SPEAKER_03 34:32

The hybrids are gonna get about 35 miles in the city and 30, 30. And uh, we're talking to another manufacturer as well that that could get anywhere. Uh a sedan is coming out and it's a little under the covers right now, but there's a potential new product that we're gonna represent that could get you want to break it here, Barry?

SPEAKER_01 34:49

You want to break the news?

SPEAKER_03 34:50

I don't want to break it yet. I don't that's bad luck, Ken. That's that's right.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

He's cleaning up the second episode. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

Don't jinx it until you're all ready to go. Real quick before we move on, Ken, though, I think I think one of the things that I wanted to touch on, and I wanted to get Barry's opinion on this because this is something that we see. I don't know that range anxiety, when we're dealing with fleets and we have we have electric vehicle training, right? I'm working with fleets all over the country that have electric vehicles. I don't know that range anxiety has been the number one issue. I think what we've found is the issue has been more the fluctuation. Um, you know, BYD out of China just did testing where they to they literally built this car around trying to fix winter time and they put it in their sub-zero chamber and they still had a big drop. I think what what I've seen more, and I'd love to get your opinion on this, Barry, is it seems to be more of stability and familiarity, right? With a hybrid vehicle, it's the miles and the range is not going to drastically change. I don't have to worry about treating it differently for almost all intents and purposes. Like you you understand it's a hybrid, but for that chauffeur, they're getting in and driving it the same. Right. I'd love to get kind of your thought on what that looks like. Is this something that you see? And and I'd love to kind of equate it to the SUVs. So we talked about, you know, we went from a town car to an MKT to, you know, where where we haven't gone is and and we kind of slowly went there. Now the industry, we're telling guys, hey, don't even bother buying sedans. If you're new to the business, go get yourself an SUV. Do you see this as we're still in that curve and they haven't cracked that nut? Or do you think this is more of a hard kind of turn or pivot there?

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Well, look, if you're gonna do all SUV work, fine, buy the SUV, buy an expedition suburban, you know, escalade navigator. Those cars are pricey and it they're costly with fuel and maintenance, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:55

So the my running in the cost per mile is almost doubled, maybe, maybe two-thirds higher.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

Yeah. I don't understand how you there are a lot of operators out there that are using their SUV to do sedan work, right? Right. And and you're trying to make everybody happy, but you can't, right? You're you're gonna lose money by doing it that way. And it's unfortunate because there's an influx of different business, right? You you may get the one passenger, you may get the three passenger. So, you know, when the SUV works, so in in some of the, you know, in some of the cases, but and most of the time I I I feel it's a more expensive operating cost.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

And you cannot, as a regular course of business, send out an SUV for a one or two for one or two passengers and expect the same profit margin. I mean, I do believe that there's a a case to be made that a uh a a wealthy couple traveling, as long as they don't have a ton of luggage, you give them you give them a sedan for the comfort perspective. Right. And you and you train your staff to ask the question, do you do do you have more luggage? I can send you a sedan or I can send you an SUV. Um it's it is just a shame because boy, that town car, as they used to, they probably say still in Jersey, you could fit five or six bodies in the city.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

I was about to say five five body trunk, five body trunk. I mean, but but I think I think the the reason I wanted to kind of go there and and kind of the the undertone I wanted to bring into the conversation is I think what we have seen is our segment of the industry doesn't move that market, right? I don't know, and and we've talked about this already. I don't see Detroit making a lot of decisions based around us. It's a lot of, hey, we could do this to help you. Right. And I think the broader motion there has been the auto, the automotive industry as a whole is moving towards the SUV. And that's why I wanted to kind of dovetail that into the conversation on Bee's. Because during the previous political administration, there was a lot of push towards EVs. Right. And now with Trump and his administration in office, they've pulled back. So I guess my question would be with your 40 years' experience, where do you see it landing? Do you see a resurgence of the EV, or do you think it's gonna be a lot more of the hybrid type technology?

SPEAKER_03 40:13

I feel more hybrid technology will will come in. I know that GM is pretty heavy with the EV market and trying to get more and more vehicles out there uh that are electric. I just don't see it for our industry right now.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

And that's the verdict is way out on their vehicles, too. I love the look of them. Yes, but the verdict is the verdict is out on them, but you are correct. For the commercial space, for the luxury space, you know, I could see the escalade maybe being a house car for a hotel because it's uh it's short runs, it's always coming back.

SPEAKER_04 40:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

But then, you know, I have a great client that's moving up to Boston, and he has some some lucid vehicles, and he's like, I can't send them up there yet because I don't have the infrastructure in place for the chargers. And when every time we go to Logan, they're backed up. So I'm like, you can't we can't do that then. We you know, you his he just moved into a huge building. But anyway, talk to us about the high top vans. I mean, they've really that they've also really taken the industry by exploded, yeah. Um last night I was looking on bring bring a trailer and they had a uh 2020, stop it, James. They had a 2023 Chevrolet old style body that's been around for a hundred years. Do they still make the old style shorty's? The old style does Ford still make the Econo line?

SPEAKER_03 41:43

They make the Icono line as a chassis for like minibuses. I believe they still are producing that, maybe even some ambulances, uh at that that sector. Uh transit, they're still the transit's been a home run for Ford. Um absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

And where do you see the life of that going? You st you you don't see that disappearing.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

I don't see that disappearing at all, you know, and they they've done some tremendous things, and I've been working with Ford on maybe making that this package a little bit better for our operators. I'm hoping that you know the input that I've given them over the years, like we've, you know, when I when it first came out in 2015, I believe was our first batch of transits, so many options, so many different configurations. If you want the single rear wheel, dual rear wheel, uh short, mid and high roof. Yeah, it was just you know, it's like learning the Torah, really. Like holy, holy cow. Like I, you know, there's no way I'm gonna learn all this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Uh but you well, but they but they the transit became original. Uh but but if I remember right, the transit came from Europe. They'd been running transit, they'd been using that name and running it in Europe since like the 50s, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:58

They did, they did a hit a they did hit a home run with that. I remember, you know, because I have customers that that have sworn to me to do the Mercedes. And we actually did a document that said, look, a gas transit versus a Mercedes with a diesel uh diesel, this is your def cost, this is your mileage cost. You know, do you really do you really need the Mercedes Sprinter? And it's funny, George Jacobs, the president founder of Windy City, I sent out a survey about this. I'm like, you know, are people using the word Sprinter because they want a Mercedes-Benz, or is it just general for a high top? And George calls me. I'm like, George, it was an email survey.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

Not anymore.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

He's like, look, I got to tell you, Sprinter's like scotch tape. Nobody gives a shit. They just want a high top band. It's Kleenex. He said, it's Kleenex. And he said, look, it's Kleenex.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

It's not a t-shirt, it's a Kleenex.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

You need to tell your operators if you're gonna have a Mercedes, you've got to you should charge higher for it. And and basically now you have you have the ability to offer two levels of service. But at the end of the day, if you're not charging extra, you know, it's tough. That's a tough difference, the Mercedes Sprinter. So and he he clarified it to me. I mean, uh, we actually quoted him in the end of the survey because it is like Kleenex. Hey, I want I I need a sprinter, and it's because they want the headroom. Um for a while there after the pandemic, you had a tough time getting transits. Tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Yeah, next next impossible because they were building everything for commercial purposes, you know. So they weren't they weren't really uh thinking about passenger vans.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Uh and we were like construction vehicles, just the empty shelves.

SPEAKER_03 44:46

Well, yeah, and and you know what was really big obviously was all the packages. So Amazon was exploding. Amazon needed all all and everything. Delivery vehicles, yeah, and construction contractors, all that stuff. So they they really focused solely on that, I felt.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

But that's gotta be easier for them to like. I mean, when you when you really start thinking about the auto industry and assembly lines and getting stuff down the line and getting out the door, I've got to imagine for them, they probably viewed that as a win of we can get it down the line, we can do it with less people, there's less stuff involved, we get them out the door. Or do you think there was something else driving that?

SPEAKER_01 45:22

It was the e-commerce.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

Yeah, without a doubt.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

And Amazon, Amazon stroke and checks for thousands of them.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Well, and that and that's what I'm saying is is massive orders and being able to get them down the line. Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

So in in our in our final few minutes, I have to tell you, you've got a great team. And I I am so impressed. I see you setting up the booths with your guys. Talk about talk about the team. You have a complete fleet.

SPEAKER_03 45:49

We got to roll it back a little bit because my team is uh is no longer a part of us anymore, but Bruce Serlin was a big part of the company way back when I believe he joined us in two thousand two thousand one, right after nine eleven. He was scheduled to come two thousand on the eleventh. And oh geez. Yeah. And he couldn't get out of the city. So Bruce has been with me for a long time. And we worked great, great together. We had some very large customers that we were able to take very good care of. And uh, you know, when the pandemic happened, you know, everything changed. And, you know, Bruce felt it was time for him to uh live the next stage of his life. But with that, I have got Dino, and Dino's been with me for 20 plus years. Uh Desiree joined the team about three years ago, and you know, I was just telling somebody that, you know, she's been remarkable. Customers love her. She knows how she's perfect for this industry, to say it that way.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Yep. Yeah, she is. And you know, Dino, you've really you've really brought him along and taught him how important relationships are. Um, you've got a great thing going.

SPEAKER_03 46:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

And it's it's interesting to me how we talk about on on on the with our clients how important it is not to be transactional.

SPEAKER_04 47:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Let's just face it, Uber is transactional. It's transactional. They don't care. We have to drive relationships. And you know, the secret to your success is that you're not going to be able to blow out the last nickel on a vehicle, but when the shit hits the fan, you're going to want Barry Trab to call. You're going to want him in your cell, yourself, because you're your car salesman, your regular car salesman, and again, your vehicle is going to be sitting at a dealership and back abundant of a bunch of consumer cars. So you've built the entire business on your back and creating and and fostering those relationships. Anything you do over.

SPEAKER_03 47:49

I probably would have uh wished that I had formed these partnerships a little earlier in my career. I I missed the boat for a minute on some of these partnerships. But, you know, everything happens for a reason, I feel. I certainly put in my time, you know, with Ford and Lincoln. Um there are bread and butter, their workhorses, and and they're completely dedicated to our industry, you know.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

Absolutely. Well, I mean, and they've also they've been listed as sponsors for all kinds of different industries, right? I mean, I've I've seen Ford sponsor at NLA, I've seen them sponsor TTA, I've seen them, you know, I've seen them involved in the ground transportation space beyond just livery.

SPEAKER_03 48:27

And GM as well. GM has been very involved. And and you know, for years I was always trying to partner with somebody uh with the suburban and the Cadillacs, and you know, just inventory was really difficult to get. I wish, you know, in hindsight, I could have formed those partnerships a little earlier.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

But your relationships and your track record with livery probably helped you to expand with Volvo, to expand with GM. Um, and you didn't have that back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

No.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

So, Barry, tell everybody how they can reach you.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

It's really simple. You can find me anywhere, but Facebook, most people text me, uh, and that number is 973-768-4500. I, as an old limousine operator, I uh I have my phone with me all the time. My wife doesn't like it, but I don't put my phone down, unfortunately. I'm always there for the industry. I'm always there for my clients, and it's not a nine to five business, right? Especially, you know, uh I'm I'm working with a customer right now that's in Hawaii. He's calling me at one o'clock in the afternoon, at nine o'clock at night. I'm there. Whatever you need, whatever I got to do, I'm gonna do for you.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

That's the secret to your success is driving those relationships and maintaining them. You're there when there's a problem. Listen, these are moving vehicles, there are going to be issues, and the key is you don't want to be stuck in the service bay at a pedestrian dealership. Um, but I want to ask you one final question. Do the Rose do the Rose brothers call you after hours the way they call me after hours?

SPEAKER_03 49:59

Uh no comment. No comment. Uh yeah. You're blessed if they're calling you after hours. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

I have to share I I I mean this sincerely. I we are blessed. Um I cold called Tim Rose when I first got into this full-time in 18. And he took my call because it was referred by somebody, and he said, Listen, I don't care what you do, but you know, I I don't pay brokers. And I I respected him, but I left him alone. And now I must speak to him three or four times a week. And at the CTNJ, he gave me the ultimate, which is the side hug. I love you, man. And I could I almost I almost broke up. And we kind of joke between it's been a two rows brother day. I love Mike. Mike is just done wonderful things with my limo.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

Um, Tim and our association, too.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

And the association.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

He's credit where credit is too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

He is he is literally, and he's a fireman. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, he's one of the hardest working guys in show business. Without a couple of things. Um, and and and and the fact that Tim, you know, I think it's just so much in his blood. And um we can't leave out your buddy Joe Galino. He's another New Jersey guy. Love that guy. If if anybody in the industry has not been to a CTNJ event, I will tell you it is an experience. It is so much fun, there is so much laughter, but there's also really good business professionals that are that would do anything to help you. So Barry Trab from Complete Fleet, uh, tell us your website.

SPEAKER_03 51:45

It's uh www.completefleet sales.com.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Excellent. And if you are going to your local dealership, you're selling yourself short, if you don't realize it on the day you sign that sales order, you're gonna realize it the first time you have a problem. Call Barry Trabb. His cell phone is always on. Thanks, Barry. Thanks again for being here. Appreciate it, Barry.

SPEAKER_03 52:08

Thank you. Appreciate it. See you guys soon.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

Thank you for listening to the Ground Transportation Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe to the show on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information about PAX Training and to contact James, go to PaxTraining.com. And for more information about driving transactions and to contact Ken, go to drivingtransactions.com. We'll see you next time on the Ground Transportation Podcast.